Not sure about that argument, but the fact remains these pardons have been issued in the past and none of the pardoned people have ever been charged. I'd take DOJ guidance on this subject.Originally Posted by Wraith
Not sure about that argument, but the fact remains these pardons have been issued in the past and none of the pardoned people have ever been charged. I'd take DOJ guidance on this subject.
Hope is the denial of reality
From what I remember, the basis for the argument came from the Nixon pardon, and the Carter administration getting pressure to take Nixon to court because the pardon didn't carry any force. Pardons without charges are very rare, and I had understood that's because nobody wants to deal with exactly this - that the pardon would carry all the legal force of a polite request, so it relies on continued DoJ cooperation.
I'm also vaguely remembering something about a supreme court case that said overly-broad pardons are invalid, but that may have been in regards to pardoning future crimes.
Anyways, I'm out of my wheelhouse, and this isn't really important anyways. Can we just call this an open question?
It was clear from context that Being was expressing concern that Trump wouldn't concede defeat and agree to leave office if the vote were to go against him. He's also trivially right; he didn't specify November—or any specific date—and Inauguration Day is after the election.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Indeed and that was my point in reply. Trump doesn't need to concede defeat. The Constitution is pretty clear and Trump will remain in office until inauguration day when his term expires. Then the newly elected President will take office. Whatever Trump thinks about it, whether he concedes or not is moot.
What garbage he gets up to as a lame duck is probably a more legitimate concern.
He's no longer president if the Electoral College and Supreme Court say so. That's not a foregone conclusion.
Hope is the denial of reality
Mr. Mushroom Cloud endorses a Democrat for prez...
Colin Powell for Biden
I wonder if Miss Mushroom Cloud will join his bandwagon this time?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Indeed, Trump as POTUS has no role to play in the Electoral College.
Hazir, the election results showed Bush won in 2000, even if others didn't like that or agree due to the hanging chads. That's not the same as suggesting that a losing candidate can just stay in office.
IIRC the actual results showed Bush lost, but they paused the recount to wait for the court's decision, and then decided not to recount because there wasn't enough time because they paused the counting in the first place, so it was a bit more complex.
And Trump can put pressure on the electoral college and appoints the supreme court. I'm not sure i trust the right outcome from there if he'd refuse to accept the results. Let's hope it won't come to that though (and let's hope he actually loses, because if he wins the entire discussion is moot anyway).
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Whether Bush won or not is not what I want to debate. I was pointing out that to inaugurate Biden he needs to be declared the winner. Lacking all reason Trump can frustrate that declaration to the point that it does not come about.
Congratulations America
Think Maduro...
(some already consider the US to be a Banana Republic)
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Did you forget 2000 elections? Do you have full trust in the self cleansing qualities of the US political system after 20 more years of toxic and divisive political life?
Congratulations America
No he can't.
Don't be too sure about what Trump can't do, RB. He's already *tried* de-legitimize voting by mail with false claims about voter fraud.
This is a silly semantic argument. There's plenty Trump can do to stay in power despite losing. Yes, he'd need others to go along with it. It's not clear how willing they'd be to play along.
Hope is the denial of reality
I think it's pretty clear the GOP is a bunch of spineless tag-alongs who care more about political power than principles.
MAGA! USA #1!
We are so screwed.
You can console yourself with some goodies from The Official Trump Store. I left a link above.MAGA! USA #1!
We are so screwed.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
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Lewkowski I think you should join this "dumpster of liberty" protest - it would really own the libs.
The mental capacity of a 5 year old.
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"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Well, it is their job to apply the law, so it can't be a surprise they don't like him
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
[QUOTE=Ominous Gamer;216154]The mental capacity of a 5 year old.
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I wonder why she thinks there are only Liberals in the deep state?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
And Lewk's been spending years saying how good Trump is because of SCOTUS
Roberts has been an epic disappointment. The idea that one president can pass an EO that can't be automatically countermanded by the next president is literally insane.And Lewk's been spending years saying how good Trump is because of SCOTUS
Executive orders like a pardon? I think you either haven't thought through your position or you're completely ignorant about what Trump was doing and why it was a problem for those justices.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Yes because those are exactly the same.
The sad thing is that you know there's no basis.
A pardon is an EO. You just said it's insane that a President can't automatically countermand an EO by a prior President. So according to you it's literally insane that a pardon can't be automatically removed by a later President (or the same President at a later time while still in office, presumably)
You are, of course, entirely free to take a more sensible position. It might not make for what seems like as witty a soundbite to you, but I'm not terribly concerned if your desire to be incredibly simplistic and reductive is messed up. You might not have noticed over these last twenty years but I'm not a big fan of being simplistic and reductive.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Any parent can relate:
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"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
But I'm very pleased with the way he was punked by an army of teenaged kpop fans
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
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Come on Lewk, do the right thing and help ensure Texas goes blue.
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