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Thread: 2020 US Presidential election

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post

    Homophobia:

    In 1998, he referred to homosexuals as "tank-topped bumboys"
    I don't know what things are like over there but here in California, that's probably not an unfair description.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  2. #152
    Indeed, I have no idea how any of those oft-quoted Johnson pieces are somehow taken out of context.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  3. #153
    It's a common get out for politicians or other public figures who get caught saying racist stuff, which is why in, my opinion, any journalist who does not immediately follow up with "OK, cool, what was the context then?" should immediately be fired.

    Because 9s out of 10 either what they said wasn't taken out of context, or it was taken out of context but the context was also racist. On the rare occasion where something that seemed racist was genuinely taken out of context, the person will offer that context up themselves unbidden... because why wouldn't you? It only helps your defence.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  4. #154
    I've put into context those quotes many times but you rant and rave and ignore reality and continue with that bullshit.

    To call Johnson homophobic when according to Pink News he has a very LGBT+ friendly voting record is a nonsense. He has marched in Pride marches, defied the whip to vote to Repeal Section 28 and was one of the FIRST senior politicians in the country to call for equal marriage so why are you being patently absurd? But you already know that don't you? You're not stupid enough to believe this which means you're trolling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #155
    How exactly are any of those things inconsistent with him seeing fit to denigrate or disparage gay people, or black people, or Muslims, or women? His statements speak for themselves, and the contexts in which they were made only serve to damn him further. The simple truth is that Johnson regards members of minority groups frequently targeted by bigots as being suitable targets for denigration and humiliation, so long as it serves his own—often specious—ends. There's nothing defensible about that sort of behavior. In many workplaces, saying the things he has said would be grounds for dismissal, even if he were doing it for laughs. In decent company, they might be grounds for exclusion. There are homophobic politicians who are themselves gay; their secret thoughts are not particularly relevant to the assessment of their overt actions.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I've put into context those quotes many times but you rant and rave and ignore reality and continue with that bullshit.
    I must've missed those ones, why don't you provide a link to where you did this?
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  7. #157
    I love these young people...

    Official Trump 2020 App Gets 1 Star Rating
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  8. #158
    https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/128...610440192?s=19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #159
    I had to look up PMSL. "It is more commonly used among those who speak British English."

    Even if Texans votes Trump out of office, they'll still be a "red" state if they continue to elect Republicans to every other office. Just like they did under previous Democratic presidencies (or governorships).

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I don't know what things are like over there but here in California, that's probably not an unfair description.
    The Queer Movement didn't get political traction until the HIV crisis/hysteria abated. I'm surprised that you make light of homophobic remarks, without considering the context of the times. The only reason you can joke about it now....is thanks to those who came before you. Don't be so glib about what's considered "humor" these days -- it can sound like revisionist history.

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    The Queer Movement didn't get political traction until the HIV crisis/hysteria abated. I'm surprised that you make light of homophobic remarks, without considering the context of the times. The only reason you can joke about it now....is thanks to those who came before you. Don't be so glib about what's considered "humor" these days -- it can sound like revisionist history.
    Uh huh, "revisionist history." Yeah, things were massively different in '98 and when I "joined" the gay community in CA in 2000, when I started college in Santa Cruz. Those two years were the exact time the HIV crisis abated (it still hasn't) and the "Queer Movement" (which had been going strong since the '92 election at a minimum) got traction.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Uh huh, "revisionist history." Yeah, things were massively different in '98 and when I "joined" the gay community in CA in 2000, when I started college in Santa Cruz. Those two years were the exact time the HIV crisis abated (it still hasn't) and the "Queer Movement" (which had been going strong since the '92 election at a minimum) got traction.
    Then you know making jokes about tank-topped bumboys IS still an example of homophobia gay bashing, even in the 21st century. Glad you can laugh it off, but these stereotypes still exist, and it's no laughing matter. Just sayin'.

  13. #163
    Oh I see. It's not just homophobia now, it's literally violence inflicted on gay guys. Is there something wrong with being a "tank-topped bumboy," GGT? If you called me a pedophile for being gay and used that old slander, I'd certainly claim bigotry and homophobia. Seeing as I'm literally wearing a tank-top right and am still enjoying the feeling of being a "bumboy" just a couple hours ago, I'm just not feeling like I've been offered violence, physical or verbal. The only hint of oppression and persecution I've got is that derived from the grandstanding old white woman trying to tell me what I should think or feel from Bumfuck Pennsylvania, amidst her laughable and ignorant attempts to alter the history of my community to suit her typical projection of her own "feelings" over reality.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  14. #164
    In essence, imagine what any female running for office faces in our hetero male dominated society. Most people don't remember Geraldine Ferraro...but they "recognize" the female pant-suit. That was the silent "dyke" signal that most men couldn't accept. (And probably contributed to Hillary Clinton's run for office, which was an abject failure).

    So don't dismiss gender stereotypes, they've been dominating our political culture for decades. It's too soon to laugh about our political paralysis.

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Oh I see. It's not just homophobia now, it's literally violence inflicted on gay guys. Is there something wrong with being a "tank-topped bumboy," GGT? If you called me a pedophile for being gay and used that old slander, I'd certainly claim bigotry and homophobia. Seeing as I'm literally wearing a tank-top right and am still enjoying the feeling of being a "bumboy" just a couple hours ago, I'm just not feeling like I've been offered violence, physical or verbal. The only hint of oppression and persecution I've got is that derived from the grandstanding old white woman trying to tell me what I should think or feel from Bumfuck Pennsylvania, amidst her laughable and ignorant attempts to alter the history of my community to suit her typical projection of her own "feelings" over reality.
    Yeah, I live in bumfuck PA and I'm an old white woman. But I've been an advocate for gay rights for a long time, probably before you even knew you were gay. Just because I said you should be careful about "gay humor" doesn't mean I'm your political opponent.

    But this is an example of internal, cultural divisions that can ultimately destroy the US. And no doubt about it: the political class will exploit these divisions.
    Last edited by GGT; 07-15-2020 at 04:46 AM.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    I had to look up PMSL. "It is more commonly used among those who speak British English."
    I hadn't considered PMSL was a British colloquialism, its a rather apt phrase sometimes.

    As for your exchange with Fuzzy though, I'm not sure what a gay-equivalent phrase of "mansplaining" is but you're doing it now. Fuzzy can better speak for himself and his community than you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Fuzzy can better speak for himself and his community than you can.
    Indeed he can, but what Fuzzy hasn't spoken for is the Clown's intentions nor his typically cack-handed language.

    You've talked about context here. Below is the article so you can gather the context. It becomes pretty clear what his intention is, and that is dismissing Mandelson's apologists by association to his being gay, and being gay means nothing but hanging around wearing tank-tops in soft-lit soho clubs drinking Pils and bumming each other. Fuzzy may well choose to do so and that is his lookout, but it is clear that the Clown intended this as a dismissive slur, and is unbelievably clumsy with it.

    For added context this article was published weeks after Mandelson was outed as being gay, and the tabloids gave him the effeminate moniker 'Mandy' - another clumsy term which the Clown seemed to have no issue in using.

    Last edited by Timbuk2; 07-15-2020 at 10:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  18. #168
    I would indeed be curious what Fuzzy takes from that.

    To me it is pretty clear from the context there that he was being overly preposterous in the language and not intended to be taken seriously, or to cause offense. Whether Fuzzy agrees or not is up to him.

    I think Johnson's record of going against the whip to vote in favour of the repeal of Section 28, of marching in the Pride parade, of being one of the very first politicians to endorse equal marriage years before it was legalised or popular to support that . . . paints him in a different light than that of a homophobe. I think that record all of which postdates him becoming an MP is more relevant than articles he wrote decades ago before he entered politics. He has a consistent voting record in favour of gay rights, going against the party sometimes to support gay rights.

    Or would you prefer a politician who voted to keep Section 28, who voted against equal marriage, had never connected themselves to Pride in anyway, who had a consistent voting record against gay rights but had never written silly articles in the last century, decades ago, using florally absurd language.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #169
    I don't disagree in that, he did go against the whip in favour of Section 28 in 2003, in favour of same-sex civil-partnerships in 2004, and further as Mayor of London in 2010 was in support of marriage equality, and indeed attended pride events in the city as Mayor.

    I have little doubt that he is not a homophobe: his actions as a politician clearly reflect that.

    Yes this article is flowery, intentionally-pretentious language written to entertain rather than inform, but within that very language sits the notion that Mandelson is a lesser man for being gay. If not, then why the hell use that fact to dismiss his supporters? I would think more of Boris if he reflected on these past clumsy musings and apologised for them, as he has often been asked to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  20. #170
    The issue is that he's comfortable with openly shitting on black people, Muslims, women and gay men, to entertain his bigoted and privileged readers. That's not something to valorize.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  21. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    I don't disagree in that, he did go against the whip in favour of Section 28 in 2003, in favour of same-sex civil-partnerships in 2004, and further as Mayor of London in 2010 was in support of marriage equality, and indeed attended pride events in the city as Mayor.

    I have little doubt that he is not a homophobe: his actions as a politician clearly reflect that.

    Yes this article is flowery, intentionally-pretentious language written to entertain rather than inform, but within that very language sits the notion that Mandelson is a lesser man for being gay. If not, then why the hell use that fact to dismiss his supporters? I would think more of Boris if he reflected on these past clumsy musings and apologised for them, as he has often been asked to do.
    It was his style, more than two decades ago as a writer not a politician, to write nonsense. He did it all the time so you can see lots of preposterous things like that if you take them out of context but the context is clear that it is not meant to be taken seriously or cause offence.

    How anyone can read that and not see it is meant to be entertaining language and not serious offence is beyond me.

    That's like people who attacked Sanders for what he wrote in the seventies on sex before he entered politics. I don't like Sanders because of his politics and would campaign against him because of his politics (though not if he was against Trump), but not because of the language used in his writing like Johnson in an article written in the last century before he entered politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The issue is that he's comfortable with openly shitting on black people, Muslims, women and gay men, to entertain his bigoted and privileged readers. That's not something to valorize.
    He wasn't shitting on anyone and he has been one of the leading political campaigners and influencers in favour of gay rights in this country leading up to the legalisation of same sex marriage by a government led by his party - and he was the FIRST leading politician from his party to call for equal marriage to be legalised before it was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #173
    “If gay marriage was OK… I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog.”
    This was from his 2001 book "Friends, Voters, Countrymen". That's not just 'flowery language' he's straight up comparing gay sex to bestiality.

    Is Boris Johnson homophobic, or merely a nasty little shit? Do I know what's in Boris Johnson's secret heart? No. I suspect he probably *had* homophobic views and one point and either moderated them or dropped them entirely later in life, as many other people did as acceptance of homosexuals became more mainstream. This is the same made who was for being in the EU until he wasn't.

    What I am asking for is for Randblade to try applying the same standards he uses to call Corbyn, or Labour generally, an anti-semite to Boris Johnson and the conservative party as a whole.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  24. #174
    In 2001 it was common for politicians of all parties to oppose gay marriage. I disagreed with that then and campaigned for gay marriage and supported it on this forum . . . but you're glossing over the fact that since then Boris Johnson not only supported gay marriage he was one of the very FIRST politicians (and first leading Tory) to do so.

    If a Labour MP had used questionably antisemitic language decades ago but had for decades been an opponent of antisemitism and had since they were elected been 100% against antisemitism and its evils then yes I would use the same standards.

    The issue with Corbyn is not that he perhaps used antisemitic language decades ago before he entered politics but that he has consistently held to and supported those with those views for the decades since then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    In 2001 it was common for politicians of all parties to oppose gay marriage. I disagreed with that then and campaigned for gay marriage and supported it on this forum . . . but you're glossing over the fact that since then Boris Johnson not only supported gay marriage he was one of the very FIRST politicians (and first leading Tory) to do so.
    It wasn't common to compare gay sex to bestiality in 2001. Do you think he still stands by that passage?

    The issue with Corbyn is not that he perhaps used antisemitic language decades ago before he entered politics but that he has consistently held to and supported those with those views for the decades since then.
    What antisemitic views are these? What has he said or done?
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  26. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It wasn't common to compare gay sex to bestiality in 2001. Do you think he still stands by that passage?

    What antisemitic views are these? What has he said or done?
    No I don't think that he stands by that passage he wrote before becoming an MP. He's certainly never uttered anything like that since becoming an MP.

    The list of antisemitic incidents involving Corbyn are vast and great and go into recent years and long after he became an MP. Very, very long. The EHRC have compiled a full report into it which is about to be published.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #177
    If it's so vast and great you should be able to come up with at least one example.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  28. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    If it's so vast and great you should be able to come up with at least one example.
    Like Corbyn as an MP writing a foreword in 2011 for an antisemitic tract saying that "Jewish finance" controls the media, saying that was "brilliant"?

    Or when Corbyn as an MP said that British "Zionists ... lack an English sense of humour despite having lived in the country for their whole life"?

    Antisemitic shit he did in recent years acting in his capacity as an MP

    Examples like that? Or a plethora of other examples you've been given many times before? Proudly done and within the context of being an MP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Like Corbyn as an MP writing a foreword in 2011 for an antisemitic tract saying that "Jewish finance" controls the media, saying that was "brilliant"?
    So, a bit like that time Boris Johnson employed noted, open anti-Semite Panagiotis Theodoracopulos as a columnist at the spectator for his entire time there, including after he became an MP because that is the standard we are using now for some reason? Or that time he used the 'Jewish oligarchs control everything' trope in his book, 72 Virgins, published in 2004, three years after he became an MP?

    Or when Corbyn as an MP said that British "Zionists ... lack an English sense of humour despite having lived in the country for their whole life"?
    LOL, was this really the worst thing you could find him saying? How is that worse than any of the shit I dug up on Boris Johnson?

    Did you know that Zionist isn't synonymous with 'Jew'? I mean, don't get me wrong it's still problematic but it's not half as bad as the shit you've just shrugged off that's come of out of Johnson's mouth over the years.

    Are you really sat over there like "Well, yeah, Johnson compared gay sex to bestiality, and yes, he said muslim woman are letter boxes and compared them to bank robbers, and yes, he used vile racial stereotypes about Africans but at least he never said Zionists have no sense of humour".

    Examples like that? Or a plethora of other examples you've been given many times before? Proudly done and within the context of being an MP.
    You mean, like you've given the mysterious context that's supposed to excuse all of Johnson's bigoted remarks yet somehow can't provide a link to where you've done so? Show me the actual post or quit your bullshit.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

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