Because it won't change anyone's mind.
Because it won't change anyone's mind.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I think it will. Maybe not those who are too far brain enfeabled like Lewk - but for a great number of edge case decent Republicans it definitely could.
And its worth noting that a 'Republican for Biden' or a 'Republican voting against Trump' is worth 2 votes. For each of these voters who switch its one fewer vote in the Trump column and one more in his opponents column.
Its worth noting that I don't think any "neverTrumps" actually advocated voting for Hillary this time. That there is a very real "Republicans against Trump" movement advocating Republicans to vote for Biden this time - that is significant!
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Do you believe there are many such fence-sitters who haven't already decided to vote against Trump? Who are these people who are so decent, but still haven't decided to vote against him despite everything they've seen him do over the course of his presidency?
I like the Project Lincoln ads—well, most of them—for the most part, but they're preaching to the choir. I see the ads as a form of coping strategy for former Republican operatives who helped set the stage for Trump and the Trumpist GOP. The one major difference I think and hope they might be able to make is to help unseat a few of Trump's Republican enablers in Congress.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Your argument is an argument that campaigning never matters when of course it does. For a lifelong Republican actually jumping to vote for a Democrat is a massive jump. To have lifelong Republicans on TV saying they're doing that essentially makes it socially acceptable.
Incidentally we saw this in this country last year too. Britain's version of Trump was Jeremy Corbyn and a great many former Labour MPs were saying it was important to vote against Corbyn's Labour party. And it worked here. It's one thing having a Conservative/Democrat say how terrible Trump/Corbyn is but to have those who were Labour/Republican saying it makes it much more powerful.
Hope it works there too.
Britain's version of Trump is Boris.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Twitter Link
Anyone who supports this moron as president is an even bigger moron than he is.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I cannot fathom how delusional you'd need to be to think Corbyn of all people is the Trump analogue in UK politics.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
To be fair to Rand, I don't think he was in any way whatsoever actually comparing how Trump is to how Corbyn is. They are at complete opposite and extreme ends of the political spectrum.
He was referring to the significance of having Republicans step out and speak against Trump, or indeed leave the GOP party and speak out against Trump, having an impact on the Trump campaign. Which is analogous to Labour party members leaving Labour and speaking out against Corbyn having an impact on Corbyn's campaign.
He's made this argument before, he actually thinks Corbyn is like Trump as a politician, because he thinks any kind of dialling back of the wild, unconstrained capitalism we've had in the US and UK since the 80s basically a communist take over.
If you what an analogy to where Corbyn sits in British politics compared to the mainstream, Bernie Sanders is right there.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
No it was Corbyn. 100% Corbyn.
Britain's version of Trump is Boris.
They may be opposite ends of the spectrum but it's always been the case that the far left and far right have remarkable similarities. Mao and Stalin were more like Hitler and Mussolini than FDR or Churchill were too.
Trump and Corbyn are alike in a lot. As well as what you said their endemic racism is very similar, which is why Corbyn's Labour were subject to an EHRC investigation due to systemic racism.
I refer you once again to the racist drivel Johnson was responsible for esp. during his time at The Spectator. Brash incompetent clown with no patience for the details of policy work, a proclivity for racist remarks and playing on xenophobic fears, a long well-attested track record of lying, connections to Bannon, suspected of corruption, propped up by a fact-resistant xenophobic conservative party. That's why he is globally known as the British Trump, your inane galaxy-brain arguments notwithstanding. Corbyn is a mix of Sanders and Gabbard.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It's too easy for debates like this to get bogged down in vague generalities, I think it's better to look at actual specifics.
Characteristic Trump Johnson Corbyn Right Wing Populist Yes Yes No Ran on Nativist Agenda Yes Yes No Failed response to the corona-virus Yes Yes No Weak grasp of details Yes Yes No Careless Yes Yes No Genuinely Stupid Yes Yes No Undermines national institutions that might hold them in check Yes Yes No Habitual Liar Yes Yes No Poor Public Speaker (Incoherent, Rambling) Yes Yes No History of Racist Remarks Yes Yes No History Sexist Remarks Yes Yes No Womaniser Yes Yes No Lacks empathy Yes Yes No Feels entitled to praise and success that is not earned Yes Yes No History of professional failure before being elected to highest office Yes Yes No Stupid blond hair Yes Yes No Supported exclusively by morons Yes Yes No
The only thing you can say for Johnson here is that he displays these characteristics in a less extreme way than Trump. So he's the British Trump, but less so. In much the same way, Randblade, that you are the British Lewkowski, but less so.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Nice try.
That you said No to all of those by Corbyn shows you lack all credibility. I won't be as partisan as you. You should drop the partisan bullshit and pay attention to what the EHRC have to say.
Characteristic Trump Johnson Corbyn Populist Yes Yes Yes Ran on Nativist Agenda Yes No No Failed response to the corona-virus Yes No N/A Weak grasp of details Yes Yes Yes Careless Yes Yes Yes Genuinely Stupid Yes No Yes Undermines national institutions that might hold them in check Yes Yes Yes Habitual Liar Yes Yes Yes Poor Public Speaker (Incoherent, Rambling) Yes No Yes History of Racist Remarks Yes No Yes History Sexist Remarks Yes No No Womaniser Yes Yes No Lacks empathy Yes No Yes Feels entitled to praise and success that is not earned Yes No Yes History of professional failure before being elected to highest office Yes No Never elected to highest office - otherwise Yes Stupid blond hair Yes Yes No Supported exclusively by morons Yes No Yes Supported by Holocaust Deniers Yes No Yes Promoted Holocaust Deniers and racists to top of party Yes No Yes Rejected by many members of own party due to political differences Yes Yes Yes Rejected by many members of own party due to their racism Yes No Yes Shared platforms with Holocaust Deniers Yes No Yes
Anyone who denies Johnson's documented history of making as well as promulgating racist, sexist and homophobic remarks is, frankly, either a liar or an idiot—or both.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Couple of lines taken out of context is not a history, not like Trump and Corbyn.
He has a pattern of making racist, sexist and homophobic remarks, as well as facilitating their publication. With or without context, his conduct is reprehensible. Frankly, his official, public record is worse than Trump's.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No he doesn't which is why the same handful of out of context lines keep getting quoted again and again - whereas Trump and Corbyn have enough to fill a textbook each.
Like I said, they're as bad or worse in context, and only a racist or a fool would think otherwise. And those are just the things he dared write in public.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Ouch!
But so true.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Randblade,
1. Was Corbyn careless enough to become infected with the virus? Boris was.
2. Did Corbyn ingest hydroxychloroquine in an ill-advised attempt at preventing infection? Boris wishes he had.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I Present to you An Incomplete History of Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Being an Absolute, Relentless Shithead for About 30 Years:
Racism:
"It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies."
"Pickaninny" is a racist slur.
"No doubt the AK47s will fall silent, and the pangas will stop their hacking of human flesh, and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles to see the big white chief touch down in his big white British taxpayer-funded bird."
"water melon smile": vile racist caricature
"The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."
Boris Johnson thinks colonialism is good, actually.
Referring to Muslim women: "go around looking like letter boxes"
In 2004, he published a novel called "Seventy-Two Virgins" which is full of racist caricatures, slurs, antisemitism and other Johnsonian unpleasantness.
Homophobia:
In 1998, he referred to homosexuals as "tank-topped bumboys"
In 2000 in the spectator he wrote about "Labour’s appalling agenda, encouraging the teaching of homosexuality in schools, and all the rest of it"
In a 2006 column, he wrote "[Mugabe] has fatally lost sympathy after he said that New Labour was composed of ‘gay gangsters’ (though, ahem, you could say there was grit of truth in that observation)"
“If gay marriage was OK… I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog.”
Classism:
"If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemployment"
1995: children of single mothers are “ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate”
Children of low income families are "unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, NEETS, and mug you on the street corner"
Regarding Hillsborough, he said Liverpudlians were "hooked on grief" and that the tragedy was in part caused by "drunken fans".
Misogyny:
"just pat her on the bottom and send her on her way"
"uppity and irresponsible women” have a “natural desire” to get pregnant.
"women’s desire to be married" must be restored by “addressing the feebleness of the modern Briton, his reluctance or inability to take control of his woman and be head of a household".
In 2012: "As I write these words there are semi-naked women playing beach volleyball in the middle of the Horse Guards Parade immortalised by Canaletto… They are glistening like wet otters and the water is splashing off the brims of the spectators’ sou’westers."
"about as pink and quivering as the freshly slapped rump of a Normandy milkmaid"
"The unanimous opinion is that what has been called the ‘Tottymeter’ reading is higher than at any Labour Party conference in living memory…Time and again the ‘Tottymeter’ has gone off as a young woman delegate mounts the rostrum."
Last edited by Steely Glint; 07-10-2020 at 07:36 PM.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
And let's not forget the secret children.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Of course, the charges of anti-antisemitism against Corbyn aren't so much about thing's he's said personally but the people he's associated with and the things in the Labour party he let slide.
So! With that in mind.
In 2001, while Johnson was editor of the Spectator, he published a column by 'Taki' (real name: Panagiotis Theodoracopulos) so anti-semitic it prompted the paper's owner Conrad Black to complain that:
"Taki" had form. Writing in 1997 (this was before Johnson's tenure) in defense of revisionist historian and boarder line holocaust denier Ernst Nolte, and in the same year writing a column where he said "Once upon a time actors spoke wonder- ful English with contrived upper-class accents. The old Central European Jews who controlled Hollywood insisted on it. The younger generation of Jews who con- trol it now think that there's more money to be made by dumbing down. It is the age of the common man, after all.". He also wrong an article in which he claimed black people have lower IQs, which Johnson later (2008) had to apologize for so it's hard to argue that Johnson didn't know who he was dealing with.In both its venomous character and its unfathomable absurdity, this farrago of lies is almost worthy of Goebbels or the authors of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Jews, according to Taki, have suborned the US government, direct that country's military like a docile attack dog, and glory in the murder of innocent or mischievous children. He presents the universal Jewish ethos as brutish, vulgar, grasping and cunningly wicked.
In 2003 Johnson published another "Taki" column 'Thoughts on Thuggery' which opens
Which was bad enough to get the CPS to take look at pressing charges against the paper, though nothing ever came of that AFAIK. It was removed from the site at the time, but is still available on the Spectator's archives."oh boy, was Enoch — God rest his soul — ever right! Now there's a man who was tough on the causes of crime long before crime had been Blaired. Or Strawed. Or Blunketted. What a bunch of bullshitters. Britain is being mugged by black hoodlums, people are being cut down in the streets a. la Mogadishu in the early Nineties, and these clowns are passing a Bill which will put the poor little Greek boy in jail if I dare to defend Slobodan Milosevic (which I do, by the way)."
Taki was still employed by the Spectator when Johnson left in 2005, and, indeed, is still there to this day only becoming more openly anti-Semitic as time wore on, for example defending the Golden Dawn party and writing a column called, and I quote, "In defense of the Wehrmacht", and would go on to be associated with modern alt-right figures like Richard Spencer and Gavin McInns.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
What the actual fuck, Boris.
http://archive.spectator.co.uk/artic...its-ok-to-hate
(Bypass the Spectators paywall by entering the following code in the console: 'jQuery('.tp-modal, .tp-backdrop').remove(); jQuery('.tp-modal-open').removeClass('tp-modal-open');')Hysteria about paedophilia is accompa- nied by a determined official liberalism about most other forms of sexual activity. Homophobia is held to be a very dreadful thing; yet it is fine to condemn paedophiles, despite the fact that they are often thought of as homosexuals who go after young boys.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
You'll never guess what Boris Johnson allowed new Tory MP for South Cambridgeshire to publish the Spectator back 2002, unless you guessed racism.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Same old bullshit out of context quotes that are always copied and pasted. Got anything new? He's been a prolific writer for 30 plus years.
The EHRC have dossiers of evidence against Corbyn. There are dossiers of evidence against Trump. For Boris a handful of the same tired out of context remarks? Pathetic.
Even Starmer knows Corbyn is an anti-Semite. I don't respect him for serving in his Cabinet but I respect him for tackling the virus afterwards and firing the odious Rebecca Long Bailey.
You keep saying they're 'out of context', are you going to tell us what the context that makes them ok actually is? And what difference does it make that they're copy and pasted, am I supposed to type them out myself?
Are you going to tell us the context that makes ok for him to publish explicitly racist columns in the Spectator and extremely bizarre column which is either vile homophobia or pedophilia apologia or a combination of the two?
He's been a prolific scumbag for 30 plus years, that's the long and the short of it.
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey gets fired for retweeting an article in the Independent that says the US police learnt kneeling on people's necks from the IDF and she's "odious" and an "anti-Semite".
Like, the depths of the double standards you're using here is absolutely breath-taking.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
All of those remarks and more have previously been presented in context on this forum, all of them damning. If this is how he acts when people can see, it's likely he's even worse in private. Looking back on your own history, I can see why you might desperately cling to the notion that context can somehow exonerate racism, but Johnson's remarks are worse—by several orders of magnitude—than your bizarre views on Irish travelers and racial profiling by cops. What you're saying here in defense of the British Trump is what MAGA jackasses have been saying in defense of the American Trump since 2016. It's just the "locker room talk" defense, repackaged. There's a reason Johnson's widely known as the British Trump.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
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