Again structures are not the issue and if they were then hotels would probably be a better temporary solution given the shutdown of travel and hospitality there will be plenty available. The issue is machinery and personnel.Originally Posted by Being
Backing that up, from what I've heard most of the fear is around running out of ventilators.
Microwave your mail before opening. UV also works.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Maker groups are already making the news for 3d printing various parts for hospitals under strain. I remember respirator valves being one.
The virus does seem to be driving one point home.
Spoiler:
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Or just wash your hands after opening. It's not like the virus can live for days on paper (or even cardboard). I'd be more wary about pens, styluses, PIN pads and touch screens. Those things are filthy.
I had to pick up my new prescription at the optician's office, and deferred the face-to-face fitting check. He wasn't wearing gloves but wiped down the frames with a medical grade wipe. It was sort of disturbing to see people wandering around the place, touching all the sample frames, trying them on and putting them back on the rack. There was even a little kid playing on the floor and touching everything. And I watched as people used the same pen to fill out forms -- about their exposure to covid19.
What, indeed, would any other president have done differently?
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN20Y2LM
This admin is dangerously incompetent. Anyone who defends it is dangerously stupid.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Governor just shut all the schools down till April 15th, and cancelled all state testing and finals. Moving forward they are going to act like this last semester just didn't happen
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
The Trump administration is just a symptom of our diseased politics, but the GOP has acted like a vector spreading germs. It's been that way since Saint Reagan announced that Government IS the problem. It started earlier, but propaganda takes a while.
Here, in the fifth largest economy in the world (the state of California), empty hotel rooms are being filled with the homeless so...
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Rand is right -- the issue is machinery (ventilators) and personnel (nurses and doctors). That's the scarce supply that matters most -- along with test availability.
Cruise ships might be a convenient way to "isolate" people who test positive but don't need intensive care, but they can also be a huge risk for caretakers because of the viral load they're exposed to.
They weren't described as "basket of deplorables" for nothing you know.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
What frustrates me the most is our 50 state patchwork policy, without a cohesive message from the WH. The leadership vacuum at the top filters down to states, so Governors and Mayors -- and businesses -- are making policy decisions as if the virus that caused a global pandemic recognizes political borders or political parties.
The administration has given direct guidance. But you know what? What makes sense for NY may not make sense in Alaska.What frustrates me the most is our 50 state patchwork policy, without a cohesive message from the WH. The leadership vacuum at the top filters down to states, so Governors and Mayors -- and businesses -- are making policy decisions as if the virus that caused a global pandemic recognizes political borders or political parties.
Viruses don't discriminate. The US isn't going to dodge this bullet because it's an "exceptional" nation.
It's no accident that measles has seen a resurgence, when it was once considered eradicated.
Last edited by GGT; 03-18-2020 at 01:21 AM.
Actually viruses tend to be kinda ageist.
My wife's company is involved in some fast-tracked design work to get a lot of ventilators made, quickly. The time frame (though ridiculously accelerated) isn't anywhere near fast enough to handle the most pressing need. Technology can help at the margins, but the sheer amount of capacity needed isn't going to be readily addressed.
As for tax 'returns' (I assume you mean refund?), I really never understood why people gave the IRS an interest free loan. I owed them a grand total of $200 this year.
My sister is the chief of staff of a largish hospital and she's been working around the clock on their emergency plan. Honestly her biggest headache right now is PPE - there just isn't enough of the right kind to provide adequate protection for her staff. If she can protect her staff and keep them from getting sick, she probably has enough personnel to handle the surge - they can cancel pretty much anything non-emergent and reassign staff to cover covid-19 patients (most of whom need fairly straightforward supportive care).
ICU beds are a big problem, though, especially when it comes to things like vents. Wash your hands, folks.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Its funny how every large organization/company has some version of a Business Continuation Plan in the event of a crisis, and every time a crisis happens they basically ignore it and start from scratch.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...et-its-success
The US screwed itself. The UK still has some time to avert an Italian scenario. I think at least three major Swedish cities are going to have completely unmanageable situations within two weeks, unless they immediately scale up testing by an order of magnitude, and implement broad restrictions aimed at suppressing community transmission. Current regional policies for testing effectively guarantee the worst of both worlds: extreme social and economic disruption over a long time AND rapid rates of transmission in the community. We'll have a completely broken healthcare system by the time this peaks, if we don't start emulating SK and Germany asap, preferably starting last week.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It's funny until you realize that not all crises are the same, and that details matter.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'm not sure how you get this from my post. She's been implementing their emergency preparedness plan since she started knocking heads together over a week ago.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Plans get in place in most large organizations on an annual basis (or more frequently) but every time a crisis occurs a new plan is created based on the facts on the ground. This is exactly what happened here. My issue isn't that tailored plans are being made, my beef is the stupidity and wastefulness of overly specific BCP planning that never ends up working like that.
Where we are is always one week behind. (If you're on time, you're late.)
That's a key principle in emergency and disaster preparedness. It's not something new.
This covid19 virus is going to test our collective will as well as our collective beliefs. It's hard to imagine what modern society would look like if people had dismissed polio or smallpox by citing "state rights" over science. Or thought that closing borders was the remedy.
People still underestimate the flu, and don't really value flu vaccinations. Then there's the anti-vaxxer crowd that doesn't believe in childhood vaccinations or thinks they cause autism. I'm not sure when this general mistrust started, but it's definitely not a good trend for public health or medical science.
If we have lower death rates (due to interventions).....there will still be a loud group saying it was an overblown reaction. Is cognitive dissonance the new global virus we should *really* be worried about?
Last edited by GGT; 03-18-2020 at 06:02 AM.
Don't think you can draw any such conclusions given that even people who are in high-risk groups themselves are acting cavalier about the whole thing, deliberately exposing themselves and others to risk.
Sweden (and others, no doubt) has pre-approved the off-label use of remdesivir if ongoing trials pan out, still months away even if Gilead dramatically increases production. Other protocols involving well-known drugs already in widespread use are being trialed, not sure how far away those are from showing results.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
So cognitive dissonance IS the real problem?
You can call it that or some people have their heads stuck up their asses
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Cognitive Dissonance is how Trump dominated the GOP and won the presidency. It's a feature, not a glitch. Don't believe what you see or read. Even during a global pandemic.
Herd immunity, lol
I'd suggest that's one of the silliest things you've ever said, but then I recall plenty more that you've said before
Planning for potential (or probable) eventualities isn't a waste and if those events planned for happens you can follow the plan (which is what our government did, they started immediately following our pre-written influenza pandemic plan) but then you need to adapt to the reality of what's really happening and make changes if need be. Making changes doesn't make your planning fruitless, quite the opposite, it gives you a starting point and it gives you thought through actions and consequences rather than just starting blind with a blank sheet of paper.
Eastenders has been cancelled so every cloud has a silver lining afterall
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