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Thread: covid-19

  1. #571
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...-environmental
    'Holy Crap This Is Insane': Citing Coronavirus Pandemic, EPA Indefinitely Suspends Environmental Rules

    and the power grabs have begun.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Note the date.

    That was when the CSO was saying shaking hands was not significant, washing them is. They changed the medical advice and stopped shaking hands two days later.
    which ignored the previous 3-4 months of countries already dealing with this. Like I said, morons all the way up.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  2. #572
    The epidemic wasn't even on the radar 4 months before then.

    Do you think it's better for our leaders to follow their chief medical advisors expertise or to make it up themselves and sideline their scientists?

    Do you think if the scientists or politicians make a mistake they should stick with it as they don't want to be embarrassed or to change their advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #573
    Randblade trying to make it out like the official advice was "Hand shaking is fine, actually. Good even, you should totally do it" rather than that the NHS hadn't issued any official advice on hand shaking by that stage is classic Randblade.
    Sticks and stones take a toll on me but they aren't your strongest weaponry
    You can take your shots but you'd best prepare, I can see smoke rising in the air
    Every move has a counteract, to turn the tides with a planned attack
    You push me down and the rest will rise but first I'm singing a battle cry

  4. #574
    Actually the chief science boffins did give handshake advice at the same press conference as Boris spoke at. They were of course also stood next to him and said there wasn't evidence handshakes spread the disease and that the priority was hand washing.

    So if you mean classic Randblade is being accurate and giving the full facts then yes I will take that.

    A couple of days later the medical advice changed and Johnson rather than worrying about the fact it was a U-turn did the right thing and went with the NEW advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    All I can say is that I wish you good luck and a lot of strength in the period ahead. I hope you can keep yourself and your loved ones safe.
    Thanks, you too. My friends at other hospitals and in other cities/countries are in much more precarious situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The epidemic wasn't even on the radar 4 months before then.

    Do you think it's better for our leaders to follow their chief medical advisors expertise or to make it up themselves and sideline their scientists?

    Do you think if the scientists or politicians make a mistake they should stick with it as they don't want to be embarrassed or to change their advice.
    Mate, no. With a dangerous droplet-borne viral pandemic developing, you shouldn't need your CSO to tell you whether or not you should shake hands with a few dozen people a day—you should decide not to, on your own, and if your CSO encourages you to shake hands, you should question their judgement and disregard their recommendation wrt handshaking. The cost of not shaking hands is, in this context, essentially zero.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #576
    Actually the chief science boffins did give handshake advice at the same press conference as Boris spoke at. They were of course also stood next to him and said there wasn't evidence handshakes spread the disease and that the priority was hand washing.
    Source?
    Last edited by Steely Glint; 03-27-2020 at 05:20 PM.
    Sticks and stones take a toll on me but they aren't your strongest weaponry
    You can take your shots but you'd best prepare, I can see smoke rising in the air
    Every move has a counteract, to turn the tides with a planned attack
    You push me down and the rest will rise but first I'm singing a battle cry

  7. #577
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but that advice was about shaking hands in general (since infections were still rare back then) not shaking hands in a hospital with infected people.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  8. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Source?
    You're asking for a source on your own claim?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You're asking for a source on your own claim?
    edited
    Sticks and stones take a toll on me but they aren't your strongest weaponry
    You can take your shots but you'd best prepare, I can see smoke rising in the air
    Every move has a counteract, to turn the tides with a planned attack
    You push me down and the rest will rise but first I'm singing a battle cry

  10. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    classic Randblade is being accurate and giving the full facts
    Wait, are you referring to the same press briefing that you said was held on the 8th, and which you used to completely misrepresent the state of the evidence and baselessly attack Stewart? It sounds like you're talking about that briefing. Classic RB
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  11. #581
    County activated Emergency Operations last night. I luckily wasn't called in, but those that were are being trained on logistics and donation processing. Can't tell if thats because we only know how to prep for hurricanes, or if they are planning for the next several weeks to get so bad that the staging locations are going to become tent cities of the ill, dying or dead.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  12. #582
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but that advice was about shaking hands in general (since infections were still rare back then) not shaking hands in a hospital with infected people.
    Naw, my General Practitioner refuses to shake hands for years now.

    Also, yes, shaking hands in a hospital is bloody moronic.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  13. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Source?
    The video of the full press conference in which that quote was made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Wait, are you referring to the same press briefing that you said was held on the 8th, and which you used to completely misrepresent the state of the evidence and baselessly attack Stewart? It sounds like you're talking about that briefing. Classic RB
    A press conference was held on the 8th and I watched it live and correctly represented it. When you asked for a source I Googled for a video of that press conference and it was by the AP News Agency and labelled as the 8th. You said that the AP had posted the previous press conference despite it being labelled the 8th by them. If the AP have mislabelled or posted the wrong video that's on them. Find the press conference for the 8th.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The video of the full press conference in which that quote was made.
    Boris Johnson said everyone should lick doorknobs.

    Source: the video in which Boris Johnson said everyone should lick doorknobs.
    Sticks and stones take a toll on me but they aren't your strongest weaponry
    You can take your shots but you'd best prepare, I can see smoke rising in the air
    Every move has a counteract, to turn the tides with a planned attack
    You push me down and the rest will rise but first I'm singing a battle cry

  16. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    A press conference was held on the 8th and I watched it live and correctly represented it. When you asked for a source I Googled for a video of that press conference and it was by the AP News Agency and labelled as the 8th. You said that the AP had posted the previous press conference despite it being labelled the 8th by them. If the AP have mislabelled or posted the wrong video that's on them. Find the press conference for the 8th.
    Classic RB It was literally labeled the 3rd, right in the description. There are quotes and transcripts that confirm it was held on the 3rd. The position tenuously presented at that event was contradicted two days later during a hearing before the Commons, so if you believe you heard something else on the 8th, please provide direct quotes from that conference that support your claims.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #587
    https://www.ft.com/content/f9051f66-...e-3980225ae542

    They chose a bad time to be so... English.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    https://www.ft.com/content/f9051f66-...e-3980225ae542

    They chose a bad time to be so... English.
    Why? Your procurement process is behind ours. Procurement options for ventilators were it seems received by the EU yesterday and are being reviewed now. UK procurement options were already received and reviewed and orders have already been placed.

    There's a time and a place for bureaucracy to drive down prices through collective purchasing. This isn't it, time is of the essence and our orders are in progress already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #589
    Shaking hands doesn't transmit the virus but because people don't realize how often they touch their face, mouth, eyes etc...

  20. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Shaking hands doesn't transmit the virus but because people don't realize how often they touch their face, mouth, eyes etc...
    You’re gonna explain the sky is up any time soon?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  21. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Why? Your procurement process is behind ours. Procurement options for ventilators were it seems received by the EU yesterday and are being reviewed now. UK procurement options were already received and reviewed and orders have already been placed.

    There's a time and a place for bureaucracy to drive down prices through collective purchasing. This isn't it, time is of the essence and our orders are in progress already.
    Did you read their article? What you ordered is a promise to build 10.000 ventilators of which the model still has to de designed and approved for medical use. We are buying off the shelf.

    This is not the time to start an urgent procurement with a circle jerk of big ego’s.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  22. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    snip

    There's a article of faith deeply cherished by Swedes that Sweden is "different", that lessons applicable to other countries are simply not applicable to Sweden.
    That's not unique to Sweden. Looks like the UK felt the same way with their late response and mitigation, and Mexico is reportedly telling poor people they can't get infected. And don't forget that US Exceptionalism is alive and well, with low population states believing they're 'immune' somehow, and even the Executive and Legislative branches aren't practicing social distancing properly.

    Take care of yourself and your family, be super cautious, and hope you don't run out of PPE -- or have to wear garbage bags as gowns, or home-sewn masks.


    Hi, Bitter! Good to see you again and glad you cancelled your NO trip. Yeah, it's going to get bad. They're converting a convention center into a massive field hospital. (Brings back bad memories of Katrina.)

    Contact tracing is a nightmare due to travel/tourism. Between spring break and Mardi Gras and vacationers, it's no wonder there's global spread. I'm wondering why airports and cruise lines are still operating....

  23. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Shaking hands doesn't transmit the virus but because people don't realize how often they touch their face, mouth, eyes etc...
    That's like saying coughing or sneezing doesn't transmit the virus but because people don't realize how often they breathe...

  24. #594
    Don't call 911 in an emergency. Have the presence of mind to call 311 during your *health* emergency.

    Maybe that's just in New York. There's another number to call while on the PA turnpike, 511? Who knows, maybe your smart phone knows the difference b/w a heart attack and a flat tire?
    Last edited by GGT; 03-28-2020 at 06:32 AM.

  25. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Did you read their article? What you ordered is a promise to build 10.000 ventilators of which the model still has to de designed and approved for medical use. We are buying off the shelf.

    This is not the time to start an urgent procurement with a circle jerk of big ego’s.
    If that is what the article says the article is wrong. We are buying off the shelf AND buying newly created ones from other manufacturers. Because the issue is we need more than existing manufacturers can rapidly create.

    Oh and the existing manufacturers are sharing their IP in order to allow the new manufacturers to get them created quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #596
    Rand, there's no shame in admitting that your government was slow to respond, or that mitigation efforts were ill-conceived. Practically every nation has handled this pandemic poorly <that's the real shame> so you don't need to try so hard to defend England's efforts.
    Last edited by GGT; 03-28-2020 at 08:41 AM.

  27. #597
    I'm saying what I believe. There's no nationalism involved. Hazir made a mistake was I not supposed to correct it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I'm saying what I believe. There's no nationalism involved. Hazir made a mistake was I not supposed to correct it?
    You might "think or believe" that it was right to delay school closures, so parents could get things in order, but that's a political decision, and you're wrong. Viruses don't operate on the same timeline, they don't "think" and they don't care what humans "believe".

    It's hard to distinguish your "beliefs" from nationalism, when it sounds more like defending England over anything else, even science. That's pretty Trumpian, but also fits the Brexit attitude.

    This isn't really about ventilators.

  29. #599
    The real world facts match my beliefs. Nations that prematurely shut down schools without thinking through the consequences spread the virus far and wide. Nations that smartly closed down schools after shutting down workplaces have done better. We're in the latter group. I never said shutting down schools shouldn't happen, I gave my concerns with shutting down schools (that not-at-risk children would be sent to highly-at-risk grandparents first and foremost) and those concerns were dealt with. Italy didn't deal with those concerns they just shut the schools and the result was a catastrophe.

    You need to ask yourself what the purpose of shutting down schools is. If its to ensure children stay at home then you need to shut down parents workplaces first. If its to make it look like you're doing something then that isn't scientific.

    Brexit's got nothing to do with it, science and intelligence does. There is no scientific or intelligent reason to send the children of key workers to be looked after by their very vulnerable grandparents or great grandparents. That way leads to disaster. Name one western country that prematurely shut down schools which is coping better and explain why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The real world facts match my beliefs. Nations that prematurely shut down schools without thinking through the consequences spread the virus far and wide. Nations that smartly closed down schools after shutting down workplaces have done better. We're in the latter group.

    You need to ask yourself what the purpose of shutting down schools is. If its to ensure children stay at home then you need to shut down parents workplaces first. If its to make it look like you're doing something then that isn't scientific.
    The purpose is to stop the spread of a *novel* virus that no human being has ever seen, or has immunity to, but is deadlier than seasonal flu, for which there's no vaccine or therapeutic regimen, but no one knows with certainty how it's spread within human communities. I'm fine with shutting schools. And restaurants and bars. And even airports and cruise ships.

    The biggest *carriers* were the millions of people traveling on planes, trains and cruise ships crossing between countries (and state lines), who ended up at music venues, amusement parks, pubs, bars, restaurants and tourist traps. That includes community transmission. The UK doesn't have special immunity.

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