covid-19

[RandBlade]

You expected anything else than the EU coming hard down after AZN's CEO implied he'd hoodwinked the Commission?

You should understand that public opinion in the UK does not matter at all on this side of the channel. As has been pointed out before, this is in the news in Germany mostly. For the rest the news doesn't register very much. There is no criticism of the way the Commission is reacting to the failure of AZN to deliver.

He did no such thing. The Commission were cheap and tardy, refused to sign the contract for 3 months and that's had consequences. They should have pulled their finger out.

The EU know they haven't got a snowflakes chance in hell of getting courts on their side for this, which is why they're flailing so disastrously breaking international laws as they do. And showing themselves to be bad faith places to invest in - Big Pharma can just as easily invest in Switzerland or the UK and expect them to do so in the future.

[Hazir]

Well given that we voted to break international law WRT to a UK/EU treaty (and it was only the House of Lords, thank the Lord, that blocked it), I suppose the precedent has been set.

I don't know if it's precedent really if an administration decides to throw the book at a company not delivering what is essentially a strategic good. What is remarkable in this case is that the company actively solicited the book being thrown.

[Hazir]

He did no such thing. The Commission were cheap and tardy, refused to sign the contract for 3 months and that's had consequences. They should have pulled their finger out.

The EU know they haven't got a snowflakes chance in hell of getting courts on their side for this, which is why they're flailing so disastrously breaking international laws as they do. And showing themselves to be bad faith places to invest in - Big Pharma can just as easily invest in Switzerland or the UK and expect them to do so in the future.

Yeah, whatever.

[gogobongopop]

They broke the treaty in doing so - they failed to inform the UK before doing so, they just announced it at a press conference. So they're in breach of international law.
They broke the spirit of the treaty in doing so too - they did so without consulting with Ireland first.

Unprecedented full house now: The UK Tory Government, the Irish Coalition Government, the Labour opposition, the DUP, Sinn Fein, Alliance and the SDLP have all unanimously come out against this.

The EU have united Northern Ireland, Ireland and Britain. Incredible.

But are there doing it in a very specific and limited way?

[Hazir]

FYI gogo, the triggering of this specific measure isn't reported at all on this side of the channel. It's nowhere where I'd look for this news at least.

The positive advice of the EMA on the vaccine itself is reported.

[gogobongopop]

Well the British press do love a good "row" story.

[Hazir]

Well the British press do love a good "row" story.

I think it's a bit overblown anyway. To me it seems this is merely a move that is part of a bigger set of rules that mostly will enable the Belgian government to regulate where AZN"s production in Belgium goes to. Nobody is actually expecting a ban on the export of all vaccines.

But it does blow the cover from AZN 's sales.

[RandBlade]

Well the British press do love a good "row" story.

Not just the British press, look at the Irish press: https://www.rte.ie/

Top story: https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/202...accine-brexit/ "Govt had 'no advance warning' of EU decision to trigger Article 16"

The figures I quoted before were for Covax, which is related to but not same as Gavi. I'll see if I can find a good source for the numbers.

I think we should help out the Irish because we can. We've got over 200mn confirmed doses of vaccine sewn up now, we need about 100mn for ourselves and the intention had always been to overbuy because some might fail (so many succeeding is lucky) and any excess can go to Covax. But there's only 5m Irish adults so 10m doses needed. We can give that away to them, eradicate the virus from the only land that shares an island or land border with us - and still then help the third world.

It would be a good, kind hearted but also selfinterested act of generosity. It could be a good act of soft power projection to help and build relations with the Irish.

[Hazir]

Maybe those Irish sources would have done well to use the choice to stay silent. Their Ill informed off the cuff comments are just causing confusion. The real world effect of this is that AZN's books wrt to the vaccine no longer is privileged information.

[Aimless]

Why would they have known weeks ago what yield they'd have in the future for months from then.

I have already told you why they must have known.

[gogobongopop]

Twitter Link

[Hazir]

I have already told you why they must have known.

I don't know any Scandinavian language, but am I right in assuming that it isn't exactly breaking news up north either?

[Aimless]

Hence why Covax. Help nations that aren't rich enough to help themselves - to help them but to also help ourselves by stomping out this virus so it stops mutating, because a mutation anywhere on the planet will spread all over it. Our "allies" should be doing the same.

The UK has donated more than half a billion pounds to Covax. Joe Biden has donated $4 billion to Covax. The entire EU combined . . . about €500 mn. The EU have not just spent 1/7th on vaccine development than the UK and USA per capita; the entire EU combined have donated less to Covax than the UK alone has done.

Where did these numbers come from?

According to this: https://www.gavi.org/investing-gavi/...donor-profiles

EU Commission: 330 million
Germany: 780 million
France: 620 million
Italy: 500 million
Holland: 300 million
Spain: 30 million
Sweden: 200 million
UK: 2.6 billion (wow!)
USA: 1.4 billion
Ireland: 17 million
China: 5 million (the fuck...)

Out of interest - why would you help Ireland first?

Together with member states, the EU has funded COVAX with at least 850 million EUR in grants. COVAX is just one pillar of the EU's global coronavirus response initiative, to which the EU and its member states have pledged nearly 12 billion EUR—and through which they've raised just over 4 billion EUR more, with the help of other partner countries.

I don't know any Scandinavian language, but am I right in assuming that it isn't exactly breaking news up north either?

Can't speak for our neighbours but Sweden seems fairly disinterested in all this... guess it's a consequence of not actually having to deal with lockdown for a year. Some right-wing pundits are trying to make something out of it, but it's an uphill battle.

[Aimless]

Twitter Link

Yup, the link stopped working very quickly. Extremely harmful oversight nevertheless.

[RandBlade]

"Mistake".

To mistakenly invoke Article 16 without even discussing with Ireland first, you'd wonder who would have the authority to do that.

[Aimless]

"Mistake".

To mistakenly invoke Article 16 without even discussing with Ireland first, you'd wonder who would have the authority to do that.

You'd wonder who would have the "authority" to make a drafting mistake? Well, I dunno, pretty much any of several dozen if not hundred people.

[gogobongopop]

You are loving this aren't you? It's ok to admit it, we're all friends here.

Royal fuck up. Seems too big to be a simple mistake but glad they've backtracked. Good on them for doing so so quickly.

[Aimless]

This one was really bad. Heads will roll, and, unless they're careful, I wouldn't be surprised if they open themselves up to legal liability. But now I'm a little mad they only released a partially inadvertently unredacted version of the AZN contract

[RandBlade]

You'd wonder who would have the "authority" to make a drafting mistake? Well, I dunno, pretty much any of several dozen if not hundred people.

It wasn't a "drafting mistake", cut the crap, it was explicitly invoked.

And yes I'm loving this gogo, its hilarious. The Commission have turned into Trump and today is like 6 January, only more slapstick and without violence.

[Aimless]

It wasn't a "drafting mistake", cut the crap, it was explicitly invoked.

You understand, of course, that "drafting mistake" includes more than just typos—eg. the explicit invocation of an article that was not supposed to be invoked.

[RandBlade]

You understand, of course, that "drafting mistake" includes more than just typos—eg. the explicit invocation of an article that was not supposed to be invoked.

Oh absolutely it can mistakenly happen.

In the same way as someone turns up at an Accident & Emergency ward having slipped and accidentally ended up with an inanimate object stuck lodged up their anus.

[Hazir]

The issue is reported now in the Netherlands. There is no mention of the British reactions at all. What is reported is the anger in Ireland over the 'mistake'.

[Aimless]

Oh absolutely it can mistakenly happen.

In the same way as someone turns up at an Accident & Emergency ward having slipped and accidentally ended up with an inanimate object stuck lodged up their anus.

No, more plausible that someone who didn't have their head in the game drafted a document without realizing the implications of part of the text and running it by the appropriate parties. A member state immediately pointed this out to the commission, and, almost immediately, the oversight was addressed.

[RandBlade]

It wasn't just drafted, it was published with fanfare.

Though even then you who would have to wonder who could enact Article 16 four weeks after the new arrangements came into effect without being aware of the implications. Its not as if Ireland hasn't been a major story in recent years.

Definitely object-lodged-in-derriere level of "mistake".

[RandBlade]

Away from the real-life Downfall video going on today, this is brilliant from the Netherlands.

Twitter Link
https://www.government.nl/topics/cor...road/checklist

[Aimless]

It wasn't just drafted, it was published with fanfare.

Though even then you who would have to wonder who could enact Article 16 four weeks after the new arrangements came into effect without being aware of the implications. Its not as if Ireland hasn't been a major story in recent years.

I think many people outside Ireland and the UK do not fully appreciate the political aspects of this part of the agreement, and it's evident the text wasn't reviewed by anyone who was sensitive to those political aspects. It's more plausible that someone made a mistake than to think the EU deliberately threatened to violate international law.

The figures I quoted before were for Covax, which is related to but not same as Gavi. I'll see if I can find a good source for the numbers.

I suspect you won't find a good source for the numbers because the numbers are either wrong or outright misleading, as is the argument you constructed off of them.

[Hazir]

Most of the money is subject to non-disclosure agreements anyway. It's near impossible to tally how much money changed hands in the development of vaccines. We're not even supposed to know how much a single dose costs.

[RandBlade]

VDL walking back fast now.

Twitter Link

Good start. Should apologise to AZN, drop the export checks and then move forward sensibly.

[Aimless]

Most of the money is subject to non-disclosure agreements anyway. It's near impossible to tally how much money changed hands in the development of vaccines. We're not even supposed to know how much a single dose costs.

For COVAX, the EU and its member states have disclosed support in excess of €850 million.

[RandBlade]

A pathetically tiny amount.

The UK has unilaterally done £548mn
Biden is signing $4bn

The EU aren't pulling their weight. Again.