The maddening thing is that she is aware of the fact that dying of covid-19 is the bigger risk. She read an article about a couple refusing to get vaccinated who then both died from covid-19. And she admits her fear of the vaccination isn't rational. But the conclusion still is that she doesn't get vaccinated. I mean, her own thought process logically should lead to vaccination. But it somehow ends in vaccination being framed as the bigger risk.Originally Posted by Aimless
Congratulations America
*astonished look on face* I have a degree in zoology which is basically biology and the information I found says blah blah blah...and then we die.*reassuring, twinkle in eye* it's not gonna do that
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
A lot of people make dumb decisions for no sane reason, even when their own life is at stake. Some of them might be deterred from such stupidity if all the people they respected told them to do otherwise, but there's quite a lot of mixed messaging right now. Most people don't differentiate between the advice coming from an expert and advice coming from some health blog or Oprah.
Hope is the denial of reality
Over 88% of British adults now have Covid antibodies (as per serological survey)
81.9% of adults have been vaccinated
59.7% of adults have been double-vaccinated.
The UK has overtaken Israel in share of population vaccinated (one dose only, still a bit to go on second doses)
Less than 1% of all deaths are being caused by Covid19
7-day average death rate is 11, or 0.016 per 100k.
And still this stupid lockdown is being extended.
Interesting. Two doses of vaccines are more effective against Delta than they were against Alpha, not less. Lower confidence interval too.
96% VE for Pfizer, 92% for AZ.
Probably because vaccine protection builds over time so it being later has had that effect, people have had longer to build their immunity. Good news though.
Stunning numbers for one dose too.
Those are likely not meaningful or significant differences. I would caution about claiming 'more' efficacy without data that actually shows superiority.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
The Netherlands has removed the Janssen* vaccine from its regular vaccination program. Yet, the Janssen vaccine is considered safe enough to be used on 'informed consent', which is exactly how the 200k doses that are in store will be put to use. As of today it's possible for people to make an appointment to be vaccinated with the Janssen vaccine. For them that means they count as fully vaccinated after only one shot. 200k injections is about 1 days worth of work for the system so I guess the entire batch will be gone within a week. The call center has problems keeping up with demand as we speak.
*Janssen is a subsidiary of Johnson and Johnson.
Congratulations America
What was the reason for removal?
Over here it is used almost exclusively in cases where it is considered impossible to reasonably ensure administration of two doses (think homeless shelters, etc). I hadn't heard anything regarding any issues with the J&J vaccine, and faulty as our system may be, people in charge seem to pick up on information regarding any perceived safety concerns rather rapidly, at least that was the case with the whole AZN vaccine thing a while back.
Carthāgō dēlenda est
There were two reasons for removal; an almost insignificant number of cases with severe side effects combined with an ample supply of the Pfizer vaccine. The interesting diffence with the AZN vaccine is that the Janssen vaccine (in theory) will be given to all age groups. Whereas the AZN is only still given as a second injection and then alone to people over 60.
The number of cases with severe side effects were so low that statistically it should be entirely possible that none of the 200k people who get the Janssen vaccine now will be just ok.
Congratulations America
Hazir, did your sister consult with her physician? If so, what was their recommendation? If not, why not?
<It's purely anecdotal, but I wonder if some doctors hesitate to give their sick or compromised patients the go-ahead to get vaccinated, because they're worried about liability law suits if there's a bad outcome. On the flip side, it seems like lots of patients aren't even asking their doctors for their medical opinion.>
Yes, and he told her to get vaccinated. The risks that exist have no significance compared to the risk of an infection. If she contracts covid-19, it would take several medical miracles to survive.
Congratulations America
Why do you suppose she ignored her doctor's advice?
Irrational and unspecified fear of the vaccine.
Congratulations America
The Netherlands : From Friday everyone over 12 can make an appointment to get vaccinated. A number of walk in (mobile) vaccination centers are operational now.
In about a week or two every adult person who wants to be vaccinated can have had at least one shot.
Congratulations America
That's great news Hazir.
I forgot to say here, I got my second AZ jab over the weekend.
This is an absolutely fantastic chart.
https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/stat...189079044?s=20
First deaths without cases, then cases and deaths, now cases without deaths. First no testing and no vaccines, then testing and no vaccines, now testing and vaccines
Two weeks later and as was immediately obvious the SAGE modelling was farcical bullshit.
Twitter Link
Delaying lifting lockdown was a stupid mistake that must never be repeated again. The worst mistake of the entire pandemic has been lockdown dragging on for months too long - taking away people's fundamental civil liberties should only ever be a last resort.
To be fair this model was "if lockdown was lifted on 21 June" but given it takes weeks after lifting a step of lockdown for extra mingling to result in extra cases, that take time to result in sickness, then time progress to hospitalisations, then time to die, the fact that hospitalisations and deaths are nothing like they are now is related to mingling before 21/6 anyway.
If any of these zero covid cultist zealots insist on dragging out lockdown any further we need someone in government brave enough to say that we've had enough of experts saying they know what is best and consistently getting it wrong.
Who, exactly, are the zero covid cultist zealots? I'm not sure I know anyone with any real influence or power demanding zero covid. Have I missed something?
Some on SAGE and all of the Orwellian named "Independent SAGE".
Some of these lunatics have been much loved by Sky. Devi Sridhar was one but she recently abandoned the idea and so isn't getting booked as much.
Christina Pagel and Deepti Gurdasani are two of the worst Cultists.
I'mma go ahead and say, even though it's not resulting in a high death total given a fairly effective vaccination program, the rapidly rising infection rate your graph shows is still a significant problem and probably indicates your position is a bad one. Infections like that still means a rapidly propagating (and hence mutating) virus which undermines and eventually eliminates the effectiveness of the vaccination program.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I completely disagree. Either we remain under lockdown restrictions forever, which is farcical and unliveable, or we learn to live with the virus in which case the virus needs to burn itself out, or learnt to be lived with.
The vaccine rollout is done effectively, the very few hospitalisations that are occuring are almost entirely concentrated within the tiny minority who have refused the vaccine. What are we supposed to do - keep restrictions in place forever to protect antivaxxers?
We're pretty close to herd immunity and the virus is just filling in the gaps where people haven't taken the vaccine, or aren't eligible for it (children). After that it will be over and burnt out as the virus smashes into a wall of vaccine-created herd immunity once it runs out of others to infect.
With respect the flaw in your logic is that there isn't an infinite pool of people for the virus to infect, so no it won't eventually eliminate the effectiveness since the virus will be burnt out before that happens.
If the virus isn't causing deaths or hospitalisations eventually we need to stop testing and panicking over this and just live with it like we do the flu and if it spreads, it spreads.
******
Another way of looking at it is that if a novel virus had arrived in normal circumstances with our post-vaccine infectiousness, hospitalisations and deaths as the default unvaccinated rate would we have ever locked down in the first place? No, we wouldn't. It would have just been considered like the flu and not been this pandemic. Actually fewer people are dying from this than the flu, post-vaccination this disease is less deadly than the flu. If the link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths has been broken then its time to stop worrying about cases.
Ah but you see RB that would mean taking away power from the government to run people's lives. Gotta keep the fear turned up as high as can be.
That's not what those recent infection numbers indicate. Am I saying you should be in lockdown forever? No. But you're not exactly in a real lockdown now anyway, are you? You've got a few restrictions still. Should they continue? Maybe, maybe not. If they should continue, it ought to be until you DO actually reach a herd-immunity status, or until the pandemic is brought under control elsewhere (looks at India). What is clearly and certainly NOT the case is your constant trumpeting that you have the virus licked and everything is absolutely normal and ok. Because if that were actually the case, you would not be seeing the infection spike your own sources reference.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Not at all. There is no spike in hospitalisations or deaths which is all that matters. If the virus post-vaccine is reduced to essentially a common cold it doesn't matter how much the infection "spikes". And the data shows that ~90% of all adults in the UK now have antibodies against Covid either from vaccines or Covid so absolutely it is close to herd immunity and just filling in the gaps now.
Its irritating that the earth was salted by idiots like Trump and Toby Young etc saying absolute claptrap last year which is true now. Last year for both spikes if we didn't do the tests then the cases could be seen in deaths and hospitalisations anyway (see the first wave) so the suggestion that there'd be fewer cases if we did fewer tests was bloody stupid then. But its true now, we're doing a million tests per day and we're finding a few cases in that which aren't overloading the NHS or seeing people die. So frigging what?
Its worth noting that the UK has for some reason ramped up testing to the n-th degree while other countries are ceasing to do them. The UK's testing rate is an order of magnitude more than other nations and going up while the testing rate in other nations is a fraction in comparison and going down.
The UK is conducting more than twice as many tests per case found than the USA is, but because we're doing over 11x the tests per capita than the USA is, the UK is finding more cases. Does that mean the virus is more prevalent in the UK, or not? We don't know, but nor does it matter. In the USA there's probably plenty of cases spreading too - but since tests aren't happening, deaths aren't happening and hospitalisations aren't happening then its not being detected.
In the only ways that matters which is excess deaths and the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed the virus is completely licked and the only thing that is not normal is the restrictions on civil liberties; that is clear from the data.
People don't only die from Covid, they also get various long term health issues. Those also should be in consideration.
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
Twitter Link
Twitter Link
WTF!?
The government has the option of pursuing a very simple and effective strategy for dealing with PASC/long covid: not diagnose, not support, deny disability and rehab.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Yes people don't only die from Covid, they die from a myriad of diseases. Covid has for months provided <1% of all deaths in this country.
If people have a health issue, the NHS is there to serve them. We are not here to serve the NHS.
A final chart for now and this one is interesting too. Cases versus hospital occupancy - note that there's no scaling necessary on this since hospital occupancy scaled with cases in the second wave (obviously above in first wave due to lack of testing). Hospital occupancy data has been lagged by a week to take into account of the gap between cases and hospitalisations.
The link between cases and hospitalisations, let alone deaths, has been utterly broken. The Warwick etc SAGE SPI-M modelling was completely broken and wrong.
Time to completely let rip and if some antivaxxers get sick and die, then some antivaxxers get sick and die. They've made their choice, but for everyone else this virus is no longer what it was.
This is perhaps the dumbest take on public health this board has seen yet.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
