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Thread: Pandemics Can Teach Us

  1. #31
    Last edited by GGT; 03-28-2020 at 01:31 AM.

  2. #32
    An interesting article regarding what pandemics can teach us - and perhaps, to ponder on how much we actually learn.
    "The Lessons of the Pandemic", Science, May 30, 1919
    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/49/1274/501.full.pdf
    Carthāgō dēlenda est

  3. #33

  4. #34
    Link works just fine
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  5. #35
    I'm not getting anything, not even when I copy/paste the link to a new window.

  6. #36
    I've clicked on the link, I've highlighted it and hit ctrl-C, I've right-clicked and told it to open the link in a new tab. All worked. I suppose you could be running into some privacy or protection setting you don't remember on your browser but my own settings and script blocks are on the restrictive side and I'm still not having any problems.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Broken link?
    Try this instead:

    https://science.sciencemag.org/node/446365.full

    There's a weird bug with links to pdfs on some sites that I always forget how to fix, if the pdf link on that page doesn't work lemme know.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #38
    I'm not getting any alert about my settings, it just literally goes nowhere. I'm sure it's an error on my end. It sucks to feel stupid, apologies for the tangent.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Try this instead:

    https://science.sciencemag.org/node/446365.full

    There's a weird bug with links to pdfs on some sites that I always forget how to fix, if the pdf link on that page doesn't work lemme know.
    That worked! Thanks! But I can only read the first page of the PDF. I'm doing something wrong. omg
    Last edited by GGT; 03-30-2020 at 11:29 PM.

  10. #40
    Since I'm an old geezer who can't figure out how to read PDF articles let me take this opportunity to suggest some "old school" medical techniques that might be useful in today's pandemic where PPE is in short supply:

    1) a return to autoclaving and sterilization
    2) materials that can be re-used, instead of one-use disposables
    3) using low tech ventilators vs computerized models

    4) giving medical personnel locker rooms and showers, so they can dress/undress before and after work
    5) providing physicians and nurses with overnight facilities between shifts

    PS, I think it's crazy that "medical professionals" have to buy their own scrubs, and/or that wearing scrubs means you're a "medical professional". I've seen ppl wearing scrubs pumping gas and ordering fast food along with folks who wear bedroom slippers as street shoes.
    Last edited by GGT; 03-31-2020 at 12:47 AM.

  11. #41
    I also think it's crazy that states and FEMA are competing against one another for supplies. If this is really a WAR, then our commander in chief is an abject failure. That's not a political statement but a statement of fact. It's hard to admit that the US is no longer a global leader, but it's the truth.

  12. #42
    Life, Liberty, and Freeedom are human concepts. Just like equality and justice, and even Democracy. Germs don't work operate on these same principles -- and frequently confound the human species. They can mutate, become resistant to antibiotics, and even change their RNA to resist vaccines. Clever little critters.

    Instead of humans fighting one another (for political reasons) maybe it's high time we take "germs" seriously, and collaborate on a global scale? The first step, of course, would be agreeing that science matters. The US used to be a leader that way, but it's taken some serious hits in recent years (as we've let the Republican Party portray science as a bastion of "liberal beliefs".)

    I'm not sure if we'll be successful, since the US has groups (on both sides) that think vaccines for mumps, measles, or rubella are more harmful than good, and might even cause autism We don't even take advantage of seasonal Flu vaccines, because we don't really see the Flu as a real threat. We think there's an over-zealous attempt to vaccinate for everything, even chicken pox. We've lost trust in vaccinations --- and even Public Health --- over the years because we've lost faith in science.

    It's going to be pretty hard to change that attitude, even in the after-math of covid19. But I hope we can, and will...

  13. #43
    Oooh another lesson. Reusable bags, containers etc are out - one use and toss are back in!

    https://thehill.com/homenews/news/49...onavirus-fight

  14. #44
    Lewk, why are you criticizing a nuanced and nimble flexibility in bureaucratic decisions? Shouldn't you be glad that policies can change and adapt, based on what's happening in real time? Maybe you're just trolling, hard to tell.

  15. #45
    Bump.

    Pandemics can also expose our failures, and the reluctance to admit those failures.

    Disney World (the Magic Kingdom) is open again in Florida. Is the US the hub of magical thinking?

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Bump.

    Pandemics can also expose our failures, and the reluctance to admit those failures.

    Disney World (the Magic Kingdom) is open again in Florida. Is the US the hub of magical thinking?
    Disney World probably has more precautions and safety measures than say... BLM mass gatherings and protests.

  17. #47
    There's no evidence that BLM protests have increased the infection rate in any state. But there is proof that "parties" and mass-entertainment (and religious services) have led to outbreaks. Disney in Asia has closed again after some employees tested positive.

    So how's that <US> magical thinking working out?
    Last edited by GGT; 07-15-2020 at 05:48 AM.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    There's no evidence that BLM protests have increased the infection rate in any state. But there is proof that "parties" and mass-entertainment (and religious services) have led to outbreaks. Disney in Asia has closed again after some employees tested positive.

    So how's that <US> magical thinking working out?
    Are you suggesting that science is wrong and that outdoor social distancing is unneeded?

  19. #49
    http://theworldforgotten.com/showthr...light=michigan

    "What's that saying about your rights ending at my nose?

    You can't assert 1st Amendment Rights of Free Speech when you're (possibly) infecting others with shouted screams aimed inches from another person. Just look at the photos. The covid-19 virus can be transmitted by pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spreaders, just by talking or breathing. It doesn't distinguish between cops or cloth masks.

    Those militia men should be cited for ignoring the State of Emergency legal guidelines, and endangering the health of a police officer. Full stop, no excuses or exemptions."

    Idiot. You posted this recently. Let me guess though BLM screaming at a police officer is totally different right?

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    http://theworldforgotten.com/showthr...light=michigan

    "What's that saying about your rights ending at my nose?

    You can't assert 1st Amendment Rights of Free Speech when you're (possibly) infecting others with shouted screams aimed inches from another person. Just look at the photos. The covid-19 virus can be transmitted by pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spreaders, just by talking or breathing. It doesn't distinguish between cops or cloth masks.

    Those militia men should be cited for ignoring the State of Emergency legal guidelines, and endangering the health of a police officer. Full stop, no excuses or exemptions."

    Idiot. You posted this recently. Let me guess though BLM screaming at a police officer is totally different right?
    I am curious about this too GGT. I had similar thoughts to Lewk when I read your post, and is a great example of exactly the kind of thing I was discussing in the other thread. If we are being charitable this seems on its face a pretty clear example of cognitive dissonance.

  21. #51
    Radio silence, shocker.

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Radio silence, shocker.
    This is rich coming from you, is there a single thread you don't eventually bitch and ditch on this board?
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    I am curious about this too GGT. I had similar thoughts to Lewk when I read your post, and is a great example of exactly the kind of thing I was discussing in the other thread. If we are being charitable this seems on its face a pretty clear example of cognitive dissonance.
    In the MI thread, I was replying to Lewk's comment that no cop was assaulted, despite pictures showing them being assaulted with (possibly infectious) respiratory droplets from unmasked militiamen.

    In the other thread you were criticizing Gov. Wolf for attending an outdoor march where almost all people were masked and a few feet away from others (as possible) -- trying to be safe about it. They weren't face-to-face screaming without masks, which is a great way to transmit the virus, even by asymptomatic spreaders.

    Even tho both were examples of "violating health guidelines", I saw a difference in their behaviors, motivations, intentions. If you think that's cognitive dissonance, it's no wonder we're having a helluva time making guidelines for re-opening businesses and schools....where fights break out in Costco, or town meetings in Utah have to be cancelled. And Governors sue Mayors.

  24. #54
    Holy shit GGT it doesn't matter what the *cause* is. You have to be consistent. You can't say "oh this is a Covid risk they should be stopped" and have a crowd 20x the size do the same shit (including yelling at police officers and waaaay worse) and then say "There is no proof this spreads Covid they shouldn't be stopped."

    You are biased beyond belief.

  25. #55
    Lewk, the virus only wants to find hosts and replicate itself. Ignoring it and wishful thinking only helps it spread. Since we can't stay-at-home for another year...the best we can do is modify our behaviors while scientists continue to study it. Our behaviors won't require blanket black & white, all-or-none actions -- but a nuanced approach that can adapt and evolve as science does.

    I didn't think the RNC holding conventions in indoor spaces without physical distancing or masking requirements was a good idea. Let alone changing venues from NC to FL because they had loser (lol looser) guidelines. But I didn't go on a rant about cancelling *planned and coordinated* large events altogether, either.

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