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Thread: Hong Kong

  1. #1

    Default Hong Kong

    Situation deteriorating faster in Hong Kong and China's escalation of dissolving One Nation, Two Systems is very worrying.

    Can the West do anything? Should we?

    Today the UK has said if this goes ahead we will make it over for BN(O) Hong Kong residents to migrate here, I'd go further and give a full open door to anyone from Hong Kong who wants to flee what is coming.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ab#maincontent
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #2
    Why?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Situation deteriorating faster in Hong Kong and China's escalation of dissolving One Nation, Two Systems is very worrying.

    Can the West do anything? Should we?

    Today the UK has said if this goes ahead we will make it over for BN(O) Hong Kong residents to migrate here, I'd go further and give a full open door to anyone from Hong Kong who wants to flee what is coming.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ab#maincontent
    This is *exactly* the situation asylum was made for, I'd support bringing in folks to America from Hong Kong.

  4. #4
    Surprised you're asking why? Why should the West act or why do I think the UK should?

    I felt we should do that before handover and even more so now that China is reneging on Two Systems. I feel we owe a duty of care to the people of Hong Kong.

    BN(O) are British Nationals though not British Citizens.

    I think this is the right thing to do though I don't get Raab phrasing it like a threat, that makes no sense. Yeah Raab that'll show the Chinese leadership: back down or we will give some Hong Kongers the right to another six months in the UK!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #5
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    Good luck with taking in 7,5 million people. If you mean not taking in 7,5 million but only those who are actually persecuted, then your offer is not a jot different than what every signatory to the treaties would be obliged to do.

    If you had a duty of care for the people of Hong Kong that was reneged on when all of Hong Kong was handed over to the Chinese under the sham 'one country two systems' rule that was bound to strip the people of Hong Kong of their rights at some time. It's almost surprising it took China this long to behave like itself.

    The reality for the people of Hong Kong is that nobody is going to save them or take them in. No country is going to punish China either. It's pretty much game over for brand Hong Kong.
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  6. #6
    I don't for one section think that all 7.5 million would migrate here any more than when we had free movement for 500 million that they would all come here.

    But I think it would be morally the right thing to let them decide if they want to do so and cope accordingly considering China has betrayed the agreements made before handover.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Surprised you're asking why? Why should the West act or why do I think the UK should?

    I felt we should do that before handover and even more so now that China is reneging on Two Systems. I feel we owe a duty of care to the people of Hong Kong.

    BN(O) are British Nationals though not British Citizens.

    I think this is the right thing to do though I don't get Raab phrasing it like a threat, that makes no sense. Yeah Raab that'll show the Chinese leadership: back down or we will give some Hong Kongers the right to another six months in the UK!
    Why would you "give a full open door to anyone from Hong Kong who wants to flee what is coming"? What is your rationale?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't for one section think that all 7.5 million would migrate here any more than when we had free movement for 500 million that they would all come here.

    But I think it would be morally the right thing to let them decide if they want to do so and cope accordingly considering China has betrayed the agreements made before handover.
    Interesting that you would think not all inhabitants may want to move to the UK as their lives are falling apart around them. It's not just going to be more autocratic rule, it's the falling away of the legal basis under their economy. A lot of poor people who are laid off may very well think giving the UK a go is a good idea. Or are we talking again about one of those fake generous offers where you only take in people who have got something to offer to yyou and will you let the rest rot just like in 1997?
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Why would you "give a full open door to anyone from Hong Kong who wants to flee what is coming"? What is your rationale?
    It's the right thing to do. British Nationals were abandoned to China with conditions that China would honour. China has reneged now on its promises. It was considered at the time whether British Citizenship should be offered to all the British Nationals in Hong Kong before handover but China said that if the UK gave citizenship to the population of Hong Kong then the Chinese would invade militarily. So the Two Systems solution was negotiated.

    Given China is reneging on its promises we should open the door.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It's the right thing to do. British Nationals were abandoned to China with conditions that China would honour. China has reneged now on its promises. It was considered at the time whether British Citizenship should be offered to all the British Nationals in Hong Kong before handover but China said that if the UK gave citizenship to the population of Hong Kong then the Chinese would invade militarily. So the Two Systems solution was negotiated.

    Given China is reneging on its promises we should open the door.
    The British government at the time did at no point seriously consider giving citizenship to its subjects in Hong Kong. It even tried to convince the Portugese government to not be generous to people in Macau.
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  11. #11
    I was a child at the time but it's my understanding that China threatened to invade if we did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #12
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    China had no reason for an invasion.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ny-nationality
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  13. #13
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    So 3 million it is. Enjoy. I hope for these people they will have a right to vote immediately.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    So 3 million it is. Enjoy. I hope for these people they will have a right to vote immediately.
    They would.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org....s#commonwealth

    "Former residents of Hong Kong who hold a British Dependent Territories, British Nationals (Overseas) or British Overseas passport qualify for registration."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #15
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    Do you 2 need a Hate Fuck?
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  16. #16
    LOL!

    Anyway I'm glad the country is doing the right thing and hope others are welcoming to anyone from Hong Kong that feels the need to flee too.

    I don't see why Hazir objects to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #17
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    What makes you think that I object? I just don't see you doing it for real.
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  18. #18
    We should.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    They would.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org....s#commonwealth

    "Former residents of Hong Kong who hold a British Dependent Territories, British Nationals (Overseas) or British Overseas passport qualify for registration."
    Really? 3 million people would immediately gain the right to vote?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Really? 3 million people would immediately gain the right to vote?
    Yes, really.

    They're not citizens but they are British Nationals, if they move to the UK they immediately gain the right to vote, no ifs, no buts. I highly doubt all 3 million would move in one go though, but if they do then yes they'd all be eligible to vote immediately after moving.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes, really.

    They're not citizens but they are British Nationals, if they move to the UK they immediately gain the right to vote, no ifs, no buts. I highly doubt all 3 million would move in one go though, but if they do then yes they'd all be eligible to vote immediately after moving.
    Really? All 3 million are already British nationals with voting rights?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #22
    Yes, really. I've already given the link for them to register to vote.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org....s#commonwealth
    Hong Kong
    Former residents of Hong Kong who hold a British Dependent Territories, British Nationals (Overseas) or British Overseas passport qualify for registration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #23
    Wait, how many of those 3 million hold a British Dependent Territories, British Nationals (Overseas) or British Overseas passport?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #24
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    About 350.000 but the 3 million is the estimated number of people who are eligible for the BNO passport.
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  25. #25
    Indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #26
    In other words, the 3 million will not immediately gain voting rights in the UK?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    In other words, the 3 million will not immediately gain voting rights in the UK?
    Even worse, they'd have to wait for an election to exercise this so-called "right"! Despicable.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  28. #28
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    I think it's a safe assumption that they will be considered voters from the moment they reside in the United Kingdom. Which is not quite as rosey as RandBlade makes it out to be, but it's pretty close to immediately.
    Trump: Lock him up.

  29. #29
    Afaict, the additional 2.5 million or so HKers who don't hold a BN(O) passport aren't being offered citizenship, but, rather, conditionally being offered a more permissive visa regime. It can put them on a path to citizenship, but, if there's one thing we know about the HO, it's that an immigrant in the UK has no guarantees. My issue is not so much with voting rights (given the UK's recent track record there's a high likelihood of an election on any given week ) as it is with the uncertainty wrt status, eg. right of abode, access to public services and funds, etc. The proposed change is bold, but it risks putting hundreds of thousands—if not millions—of people in limbo, creating a new, vulnerable underclass practically overnight.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Even worse, they'd have to wait for an election to exercise this so-called "right"! Despicable.
    LOL!

    The roughly 2.7 million who are eligible for BNO will need to get their applications processed to activate that eligibility but yes Aimless they'd be voters once they reside in the UK.

    There will be a pathway to full citizenship but they will be voters before they are citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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