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Thread: UK politics

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Nothing could be more British than that. Nothing Trump like about it.

    I'm cross about Claire Fox being appointed. Vile woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Nothing could be more British than that. Nothing Trump like about it.

    I'm cross about Claire Fox being appointed. Vile woman.
    Nothing more British than nepotism and pettiness?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  3. #33
    As far as the House of Lords is concerned? Absolutely!

    Are you seriously questioning that? Is the idea that there's nepotism and pettiness involved with the House of Lords somehow news to you?

    Though there's no real pettiness involved there, in fact I'm amazed at the lack of it as shown by Phil Hammond and Ken Clarke who were both very publicly expelled from the party only months ago both getting their robes now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #34
    This one is just funny but Iain Duncan Smith helped inspire Black Lives Matter LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #35
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #36
    Not sure how that's rotten? Benefits are a complex mess in this country but have very strict capital limits to prevent those flush with cash getting access to them. Life insurance etc has always had this impact if the worst should happen. Maybe Rachel should seek reform to our benefits system or the removal of capital limits but I don't see her saying that, so I'm not sure how its a "rotten" mess of Hancock's making . Though it wouldn't surprise me if this gets changed unlike past life insurance, surely fixing welfare in the first place would be a good long term solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #37
    Read the article. It's very easy, all you have to do is click.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #38
    I read it. As I said, life insurance which this has been modelled on always has this effect. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a change but there's nothing rotten; this is one reason I oppose complicated welfare schemes is it causes perversions and issues like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I read it. As I said, life insurance which this has been modelled on always has this effect. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a change but there's nothing rotten; this is one reason I oppose complicated welfare schemes is it causes perversions and issues like this.
    Literally in the article:

    Labour has called for families who successfully apply for the payout to be exempted from capital limits rules, in line with other compensation schemes, such as those set up for victims of the Windrush scandal and the Grenfell Tower fire.
    They had the option to implement it in a different manner, and chose not to.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  10. #40
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    So, are Cummings and his hand puppet going to hoof it any time soon?
    Trump: Lock him up.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Literally in the article:

    They had the option to implement it in a different manner, and chose not to.
    As I said, this was set up like life insurance, not as a compensation scheme like that.

    Is it appropriate that if someone dies in general due to a less high profile tragedy that their widow loses any claims if life insurance pays out?

    If there's an issue here it shouldn't only be dealt with for high profile cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    As I said, this was set up like life insurance, not as a compensation scheme like that.

    Is it appropriate that if someone dies in general due to a less high profile tragedy that their widow loses any claims if life insurance pays out?

    If there's an issue here it shouldn't only be dealt with for high profile cases.
    You keep portraying this as something inevitable, when it was a choice. Nobody was forced to design this scheme as a life insurance in such a way that less well-off families would be disproportionately disadvantaged. There was no overarching principle that could not be set aside. Though the govt. may call it a life insurance policy, it is more akin to a simple damages scheme that offers a flat lump payment rather than taking into account age, future earnings etc.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #43
    I'm not saying its inevitable, I'm saying the system has inequities in it that should be dealt with properly and not just as a bandage on high profile cases.

    If its appropriate to deal with this in this instance, then why is it inappropriate to deal with it for eg a doctor that dies at a very young age from cancer, or in a car crash, or any other not high profile tragedy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I'm not saying its inevitable, I'm saying the system has inequities in it that should be dealt with properly and not just as a bandage on high profile cases.

    If its appropriate to deal with this in this instance, then why is it inappropriate to deal with it for eg a doctor that dies at a very young age from cancer, or in a car crash, or any other not high profile tragedy?
    This argument is dubious both morally as well as from a political and policy perspective. If we accept your "bandage" framing—for the sake of argument—it is appropriate to apply that bandage now, in a situation with a problem that requires an immediate solution—a solution that is both known and eminently feasible, with no major downsides—and then sort out the broader problem later when things are not quite as fucked-up. The govt. was clearly able to create the scheme, which is a bandage on a high-profile problem in and of itself; the govt. could and should have implemented the scheme in such a way that this foreseeable problem would've been avoided. The logical implication of your reasoning is that no compensation scheme like this one should have been implemented at all—after all, it is just a bandage on a time-limited high-profile problem.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  15. #45
    Err no that's not what I'm saying at all.

    The logical implication of my reasoning is that either the asset threshold of welfare payments should be abolished, or applied, consistently. The compensation scheme is worth an order of magnitude more than the benefits - either benefits should be universal and regardless of assets, or they should be means tested and given to those that need them. If they're to be means-tested and given to people who need them I'm not sure why it should be different in this case than any comparable cases where life insurance happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Err no that's not what I'm saying at all.

    The logical implication of my reasoning is that either the asset threshold of welfare payments should be abolished, or applied, consistently. The compensation scheme is worth an order of magnitude more than the benefits - either benefits should be universal and regardless of assets, or they should be means tested and given to those that need them. If they're to be means-tested and given to people who need them I'm not sure why it should be different in this case than any comparable cases where life insurance happens.
    Why create this scheme at all?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #47
    Which scheme?

    The life insurance scheme? Because people were dying through a high profile pandemic tragedy. They're getting the compensation so that their widows and children don't struggle.

    Or the welfare scheme? Welfare is for people without means who need it. If they have £60k cash in the bank then the welfare scheme says they don't need it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The life insurance scheme? Because people were dying through a high profile pandemic tragedy. They're getting the compensation so that their widows and children don't struggle.
    That doesn't sound like a regular case "where life insurance happens". Should've let it be and implemented more general policies to accomplish the same thing—not just for a special case.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That doesn't sound like a regular case "where life insurance happens". Should've let it be and implemented more general policies to accomplish the same thing—not just for a special case.
    I was thinking the same. It sounds like a bad idea executed horribly.
    Trump: Lock him up.

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    That doesn't sound like a regular case "where life insurance happens". Should've let it be and implemented more general policies to accomplish the same thing—not just for a special case.
    I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #51
    The logical implication of your reasoning is that no compensation scheme like this one should have been implemented at all—after all, it is just a bandage on a time-limited high-profile problem.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #52
    The government has taken responsibility for dealing with the pandemic, quite right too. Making payments to people who've died fighting to keep others alive during the pandemic seems reasonable to me and is a fraction of the cost of the pandemic overall and not the same as welfare.

    But if you're now complaining the Tories have paid too much and been too generous then I'm not sure how to respond.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #53
    You can't simultaneously approve of what they've done and agree that they shouldn't have done it. The logical implication of your previous posts is that they shouldn't have done this. You agreed with that, but then you expressed your approval of precisely the thing you previously agreed they shouldn't have done. My position is that the govt. wasn't generous enough, and that they should've exempted payouts under this scheme from calculations of capital for welfare purposes. It would've been easy, fair, and good.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #54

  25. #55
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    Can someone explain to me why the British government is so desperate to get people back to work from offices?
    Trump: Lock him up.

  26. #56
    Some in the media are, I don't believe the Government are. The media keeps spinning up stories saying people will be told to go back to the office only for the Government to quash the stories the next day.

    The government are keen for the economy to keep going and for people to get back to work - but that may not be at the office.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #57
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  28. #58
    The PM was at Westminster Cathedral that weekend for the Christening of his baby, so somewhat unlikely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The PM was at Westminster Cathedral that weekend for the Christening of his baby, so somewhat unlikely.
    The christening is said to have taken place on the 11th and it's just a couple of hours to Perugia. The official very non-specific denial of the specific claim about the exact time of day he was supposed to have landed in Perugia can be true if the exact time or day is wrong (although, let's face it—even a specific denial would be suspect, from this bunch of liars). Will obviously have to be corroborated.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The christening is said to have taken place on the 11th and it's just a couple of hours to Perugia. The official very non-specific denial of the specific claim about the exact time of day he was supposed to have landed in Perugia can be true if the exact time or day is wrong (although, let's face it—even a specific denial would be suspect, from this bunch of liars). Will obviously have to be corroborated.
    They have denied the story outright, which there is no reason to do if its not true - if he was in Perugia for a weekend then that would be entirely fine. Italy isn't under travel restrictions.

    However on the weekend in question at the times he was meant to be in Perugia he has been: photographed in the Cabinet Office (Friday evening while video messaging the Parliamentary Conservative Party as mentioned after he was supposedly in Perugia), photographed in Westminster Cathedral (while supposedly in Perugia), photographed in Downing Street (Monday morning, before he supposedly returned from Perugia, a photo snapped by the Paparazzi and used on the front cover of the Evening Standard).

    Someone has clearly got their facts wrong, but it doesn't seem to be Downing Street.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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