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Thread: How it's going—Proud Boys edition

  1. #331
    Can't get my head around just how close they got. How absurdly crooked the whole enterprise was. How so many American conservatives are such shit-for-brains scum that they still support these criminals. At least half a dozen legislators actively participated in a blatantly illegal—and violent!—scheme to steal an election, asking for pardons in return! And GOP voters have their empty heads stuck so far up their asses that they can't even be reached by news of a criminal conspiracy to steal their presidential election. I dunno whether I'm more shocked or filled with contempt.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  2. #332
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  3. #333
    He was angry that we weren't letting people in with weapons. "I don't fucking care if they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me. Take the [metal detectors] down. Let my people in, they can march to the Capitol from here." - Donald Trump
    This emergency hearing has fully justified itself. Holy shit.

  4. #334
    "We're going to charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen."

    They made it happen, so that prediction better come true.

  5. #335
    Trump and Meadows both need to hang for treason. JFC

  6. #336
    I honestly didn't think they'd bring out something like this. Can't tell whether the "surprise hearing" approach was planned in advance or whether something changed to make them hold this hearing now on short notice.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  7. #337
    The witness today had Trump-loyalist lawyers provided by the GOP. She fired them on June 9th. She looked terrified during her testimony. I think she just decided she'd be willing to take part in a public hearing, and they were trying to get her in before she could be threatened back to silence - which they've already covered the MAGA traitors were willing to do in previous hearings. Lady Ruby is a patriot who never deserved the shit they put her through.

  8. #338
    I think Cheney gave the answer to why this was an emergency hearing in her closing remarks.



    Trump is attempting to intimidate witnesses.

  9. #339
    every time I think it's over and blam another bombshell
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  10. #340
    I'm starting to see reports that this hearing was originally going to wait until July, but it got moved up because of credible death threats against the witness.

  11. #341
    Trump after his baby hands failed to choke out his secret service driver

    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  12. #342
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    https://thehill.com/policy/national-...ection-survey/

    66% thinks he should be prosecuted, 19% still thinks he didn't commit a crime, and somehow 18% thinks he did commit a crime, but for some reason shouldn't be prosecuted.

    That last group puzzles me, but good to see almost 4/5 americans agree he committed a crime.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  13. #343
    Note, Flixy, that poll's findings were not of the American public in general but of those who already think he tried to overturn the election. 66% think he tried to overturn it. 2/3 of that 66% also think it was a crime he should be prosecuted for.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  14. #344
    Who the hell is out there, like "yes, Trump tried to overthrow the election but we should let him get away with it"
    We're sleepwalking
    Piercing, hateful eyes are watching
    We're sleepwalking
    The hungry ghosts are never patient

  15. #345
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Note, Flixy, that poll's findings were not of the American public in general but of those who already think he tried to overturn the election. 66% think he tried to overturn it. 2/3 of that 66% also think it was a crime he should be prosecuted for.
    Ah yes, quite important bit. Thanks for adding.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Who the hell is out there, like "yes, Trump tried to overthrow the election but we should let him get away with it"
    It's legalese but I can think of three rationales. Two of them are wrong but might be persuasive to people. The third might actually apply. The first is that since he was the sitting President at the time, he had prosecutiorial immunity. He could be impeached but not criminally prosecuted for it. Since he was not impeached and is not now in office I think that's flimsy but I could see how someone might adopt such a stance. The second idea ties into the first, says the only avenue is being convicted in an impeachment, either first or as the only measure, and holds that since he is not now in office, there can be no impeachment. This was trotted out when we did try and impeach him in office, that impeachment only matters if you're actively in office. It's just false but I can understand confusion on the matter.

    The third is that we already DID prosecute him, that was what the second impeachment was all about, and double jeopardy now applies. If the impeachment proceedings hadn't passed in the House this would be no barrier. Failure to impeach/failure to indict can't create a double-jeopardy situation because you were never tried in the first place. He was tried on this matter by the Senate though. It doesn't matter if new evidence is brought to light. There is not a definitive answer on whether you can be criminally convicted on charges you've already been impeached over. Past DoJ advisory memoranda think you can be but it's never been ruled on. You can be impeached and removed even if you've been criminally acquitted which is definitely suggestive, but that can also just be viewed to indicate the bar for impeachment and being banned from further office is lower than that of criminal conviction and related sentencing.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  17. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    The third is that we already DID prosecute him, that was what the second impeachment was all about, and double jeopardy now applies. If the impeachment proceedings hadn't passed in the House this would be no barrier. Failure to impeach/failure to indict can't create a double-jeopardy situation because you were never tried in the first place. He was tried on this matter by the Senate though. It doesn't matter if new evidence is brought to light. There is not a definitive answer on whether you can be criminally convicted on charges you've already been impeached over. Past DoJ advisory memoranda think you can be but it's never been ruled on. You can be impeached and removed even if you've been criminally acquitted which is definitely suggestive, but that can also just be viewed to indicate the bar for impeachment and being banned from further office is lower than that of criminal conviction and related sentencing.
    I've never heard anyone put forward this argument. Every legal expert I've ever heard talk about impeachment has been very clear that it is not a criminal trial, and does not count for double jeopardy. The constitution explicitly allows for a criminal trial following the impeachment, so there can be no question that double jeopardy cannot apply. If you recall, the fact that it was not a criminal trial was the entire basis for the Republican vote for acquittal - they said he was guilty and should be tried in a criminal court, but claimed that an impeachment trial was now improper because the Republicans delayed it for too long. This was also the reason Nixon needed a pardon after his impeachment and resignation. Even if the Constitution weren't clear on the matter, the reasoning still wouldn't work for the same reason that you can have a civil suit against someone who's been criminally convicted of the same thing being sued over - double-jeopardy only applies to criminal trials, and only counts criminal trials for the same offense from the same authority.

    Sorry, that just doesn't hold water.

    The more likely explanation is the one I've heard people actually say. "Yes, he tried to overturn the election but it deserved to be overturned." or "...but the democrats did stole it first"

  18. #348
    Healing > division
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #349
    It is looking more and more as though Trump will not get the GOP nomination for POTUS 2024. Hopefully he will follow his own playbook and create a new party to nominate him. This could be the best thing that ever happens to the USA.
    .

  20. #350
    It won't help a whole lot in Congress, but him splitting the party would at least preserve a veto against a GOP legislature, and they're never going to muster the votes to pass something like an abortion ban over a veto.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  21. #351
    If I were an American, I'd commit crimes and then run for president so the DOJ would never go after me
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #352
    Secret Service made text messages from Jan 5 & 6 disappear after DHS watchdog asked for them:

    https://theintercept.com/2022/07/14/...ecret-service/

    https://www.politico.com/minutes/con...texts-missing/

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/14/p...sed/index.html

    Heads oughtta roll, probably won't
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  23. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Secret Service made text messages from Jan 5 & 6 disappear after DHS watchdog asked for them:

    Heads oughtta roll, probably won't
    Maybe you'd prefer we have the Unsecret Service?
    .

  24. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Maybe you'd prefer we have the Unsecret Service?
    what?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  25. #355
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  26. #356

    Reportedly about the classified documents he stole and not about the coup, but I'll take it.

  27. #357
    So..how high is the bar to get a no knock raid on the ex president that put you in your position?

    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  28. #358
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Seems Republicans no longer believe "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide", and "you should just comply with the police".

    The whole "if they can come after a former president, they can come after everyone" argument makes no sense anyway - yes, if they have probable cause, anyone can indeed be subject to a search warrant. Hell, they all said nobody should be above the law when it came to Hillary and the FBI..

    I do hope they did find what they were looking for, because if nothing comes from the search, the faux outrage will be unbearable. Then again, given that, I'm pretty sure they only went in if they were very sure they'd find something.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  29. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post

    I do hope they did find what they were looking for, because if nothing comes from the search, the faux outrage will be unbearable. Then again, given that, I'm pretty sure they only went in if they were very sure they'd find something.
    Doesn't matter to those wackjobs. They will cry crocodile tears and lie and push the outrage regardless, just look at what happen with the Mueller report. Even with this raid they waited till trump was off property to reduce how much they would have to embarrass him; he is the reason this has blown up like it has.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  30. #360
    "The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?" - Trump

    Anyways, Trump has taken the fifth in his deposition to the New York Attorney general in the civil fraud investigation. The thing is, because it's a civil trial and not a criminal trial, an adverse inference is allowed to be made - his taking the fifth can be treated as an admission that he committed a crime.

    ("a negative inference may be drawn in the civil context when a party invokes the right against self incrimination" - El-Dehdan v ElDehdan, 26 NY3d 19, 37-38 [2015])

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