View Poll Results: When did you get your first *paying* job?

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Thread: When should kids start to work?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't think children should be forced to work for the sake of working. If they want to buy a lot of things, then sure, they should be told to earn their own money. Also, if they're not taking education seriously, they might as well gets a heads-up on the job market. But working does interfere with getting a good education and with extracurricular activities, so if someone has a full plate already, it's stupid to force them to work just for the sake of "learning responsibility".
    Agreed. I wanted extra money and my parents weren't going to give it to me, so I worked I had time for it, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Maybe it varies by state? Hmm....
    You can't even deliver magazines or newspaper before 16 there? I do know shops here are reluctant to hire under 16s, because while they are very cheap, the rules are VERY strict with regard to working hours and the type of work they are allowed to do.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't think children should be forced to work for the sake of working. If they want to buy a lot of things, then sure, they should be told to earn their own money. Also, if they're not taking education seriously, they might as well gets a heads-up on the job market. But working does interfere with getting a good education and with extracurricular activities, so if someone has a full plate already, it's stupid to force them to work just for the sake of "learning responsibility".
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  3. #33
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Maybe it varies by state? Hmm....
    Correct Sir!

    Originally Posted by Kitty
    I don't think children should be forced to work for the sake of working. If they want to buy a lot of things, then sure, they should be told to earn their own money. Also, if they're not taking education seriously, they might as well gets a heads-up on the job market. But working does interfere with getting a good education and with extracurricular activities, so if someone has a full plate already, it's stupid to force them to work just for the sake of "learning responsibility".
    Forced? I'm not sure how many kids (in the US anyway) are forced for the sake of "learning responsibility", but if some one has a 'full plate' already, that is their own (and maybe pushy parents) fault WRT to extracurricular activities.
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  4. #34
    Just Floatin... termite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't think children should be forced to work for the sake of working. If they want to buy a lot of things, then sure, they should be told to earn their own money. Also, if they're not taking education seriously, they might as well gets a heads-up on the job market. But working does interfere with getting a good education and with extracurricular activities, so if someone has a full plate already, it's stupid to force them to work just for the sake of "learning responsibility".
    I didn't interpret the thread as being "When should you force your kids to work?".
    Such is Life...

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by termite View Post
    I didn't interpret the thread as being "When should you force your kids to work?".
    More like "when should we mock children for not working", so close enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Forced? I'm not sure how many kids (in the US anyway) are forced for the sake of "learning responsibility", but if some one has a 'full plate' already, that is their own (and maybe pushy parents) fault WRT to extracurricular activities.
    So you're telling me that if some kid is doing tutoring after school, volunteers in a soup kitchen, does piano lessons, and plays on a varsity team (i.e. your standard Ivy League applicant), that person needs to also get a job to learn some responsibility?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  6. #36
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    More like "when should we mock children for not working", so close enough.
    How are you getting that from this thread?
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  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    How are you getting that from this thread?
    I'm getting it from Dread's other thread on this topic.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #38
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Can you give me a better clue?

    What other thread?
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  9. #39
    Dread cites it in his first post.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #40
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Getting a job does learn you responsibility, but so do extracurricular activities. I think it's valuable that you do something, but a job isn't necessarily better or worse.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  11. #41
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Dread cites it in his first post.
    Okay, gotcha.

    Yer right, Dread is saying when should you force yer kid to work.

    Not quite the lingo I would have used...
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Getting a job does learn you responsibility, but so do extracurricular activities. I think it's valuable that you do something, but a job isn't necessarily better or worse.
    Yeah, who the hell puts axtracurricular activities as being better than work? I understand one usually replaces the other, but unless you have a serious shot at a full ride, its not taking you anywhere. They can teach the same skills.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Yeah, who the hell puts axtracurricular activities as being better than work? I understand one usually replaces the other, but unless you have a serious shot at a full ride, its not taking you anywhere.
    It makes you a better-rounded human being who's not going to spend their entire life either in the office or watching TV than someone who forgoes all that to make $5/hour at a bar or McDonald's.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #44
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Yeah, who the hell puts axtracurricular activities as being better than work? I understand one usually replaces the other, but unless you have a serious shot at a full ride, its not taking you anywhere. They can teach the same skills.
    My time as a treasurer for a cultural foundation was more interesting, fun, educational, and WAY more valuable on my CV than any job I have held until now (hell, I only explicitly list one job on my CV). Unlike most of my crappy part time jobs, extracurricular activities sometimes actually give you responsibility, and valuable work experience. More than stacking shelves, sorting apples, or delivering newspapers anyway.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  15. #45
    So we are comparing shit jobs to fun activities, that makes total sense.

  16. #46
    Because your average 16-year-old has a shot of getting a non-shit job...
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #47
    Yep. And at, say, university level, if you are president of some society or involved in student politics or whatever, there is a good chance you will get to do the kinds of things you will not in a "real" job, be allowed to do for usually a few year - plan projects, manage people, organise events, whatever. And as long as its recognised (e.g, student politics, not "president of the Spawnies Bedroom Call of Duty Players Association") then it can go on a cv and looks pretty good, in my opinion. Certainly much, much better than someone who has worked in mickey ds for three years while at uni.
    "Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Because your average 16-year-old has a shot of getting a non-shit job...
    Compared to the ones who get into a position of worth in an activity thats going somewhere? Not everyone gets to be treasurer, heck even NHS has a threshold, and thats about as worthless as you can get.
    Extracurricular activities for most students are simply easier to find, they are in their faces 24/7, some schools even set days aside just for them.

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Compared to the ones who get into a position of worth in an activity thats going somewhere? Not everyone gets to be treasurer, heck even NHS has a threshold, and thats about as worthless as you can get.
    Most can volunteer or engage in academic and sport extracurriculars. Guess which of those will increase your chance to get into a good college or to get a good job?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #50
    volunteering doesn't mean shit anymore. My highschool required 80 hours, from everyone, if you wanted to walk.
    Sports was the first acitvity I addressed

  21. #51
    "requiring" 80 hours of "volunteering"
    "Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Yeah, who the hell puts axtracurricular activities as being better than work? I understand one usually replaces the other, but unless you have a serious shot at a full ride, its not taking you anywhere. They can teach the same skills.
    Uh. . . a number of extracurricular activities teach/instill discipline a LOT better than manning a cash register does. Just about any sport, music, forensic league. . .
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Uh. . . a number of extracurricular activities teach/instill discipline a LOT better than manning a cash register does. Just about any sport, music, forensic league. . .
    Congrats on not reading the rest of the thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spawnie View Post
    "requiring" 80 hours of "volunteering"
    exactly why the hours don't mean anything anymore. Its simply become another assignment to complete/forge.

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Congrats on not reading the rest of the thread .
    Uh, thanks. Though I did read it, you were and are still wrong, and none of the activities I pointed out suffer from the failing that "only specific officers get anything useful from it." But please, don't let reality interfere with your assumption that all or even most extracurricular activities are on the level of whatever social club you happened to dislike when you were in school.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    exactly why the hours don't mean anything anymore. Its simply become another assignment to complete/forge.
    Yeah, thats piss poor.

    Luckly ive never heard of anything equivalent over here.
    "Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.

  26. #56
    When did this turn into "forcing kids to work"?

    I worked because I wanted extra money for concerts/music, gas to joy ride around, extra clothes....plus to save for college misc expenses. My folks weren't stingy, they provided for all needs, but they also didn't just pop for every little thing I wanted.

    I raised my kids the same way. If they can't wait for birthdays or Christmas, but want lots of games/toys/stuff----then they know it's either spend allowance or make more money.

    Most of this "work" is summer-time. Summer has lots of empty time for teens, even if they play a sport or instrument. Scouts only has one week or ten days of camp. They don't swim, golf or play tennis (competitively); soccer and football don't run all summer long, lacrosse doesn't start til spring. And really, they don't need to use the shooting range every damn day. (But thankfully they stopped baseball--that runs forever!)

    It's been great for my kid to have this PT job, and work his way up to quasi-asst manager. He's had to learn time management, social skills, fast and efficient problem solving, a work ethic. And it's not the same to volunteer. With an employer they have to learn following orders and being reviewed--criticized. Working up the ladder, merit raises, objective goals.

    These days kid are practically given trophies if they show up for sports, "everybody plays"....until HS when not everyone can (or wants to) be a jock. Their self-esteem is coddled thru elementary school, "nobody fails"....until teen years when everything changes. I think a PT job is a great lesson in responsibility, being dependable and accountable to someone other than a parent or teacher.

    Not being "forced" to work full time at slave wages, but WANTING to work a few hours a week, and connect that with income and personal growth.....that is a good thing in my book.



    Read this today. They connect unemployment to high minimum wages. Not sure I totally buy that---food services and baby sitting don't pay min wage either.

    http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti...ent_98496.html

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Because your average 16-year-old has a shot of getting a non-shit job...
    Some kids are really bright and go-getters. They set up dog walking or poop pick-up services, or lawn mowing, or baby-sitting co-ops. Not every "job" is through an "employer" ya know.

    One 14 yr old we know has been a computer wiz since he was about 12. He makes some good money fixing, updating, networking his neighbor's pcs in their homes. And he loves it.

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Some kids are really bright and go-getters. They set up dog walking or poop pick-up services, or lawn mowing, or baby-sitting co-ops. Not every "job" is through an "employer" ya know.

    One 14 yr old we know has been a computer wiz since he was about 12. He makes some good money fixing, updating, networking his neighbor's pcs in their homes. And he loves it.
    I'm sure walking dogs, picking up poop, and moving lawns are very rewarding jobs that will help them down the line.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #59
    I dunno, Loki, Lawn Service companies do really well in my neck of the woods.

    And depending on if you live in a rich neigborhood, dog walking can be a nice 2nd job to give you some extra cash.

    as far as building character, meh. But at least you can get some exercise while making a few bucks! There's enough fat kids in this world as it is.

    EDIT: You probably could consider those money making enterprises as a way to learn good networking skills too. For the future when they start other businesses.

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Catgrrl View Post
    I dunno, Loki, Lawn Service companies do really well in my neck of the woods.

    And depending on if you live in a rich neigborhood, dog walking can be a nice 2nd job to give you some extra cash.

    as far as building character, meh. But at least you can get some exercise while making a few bucks! There's enough fat kids in this world as it is.
    I meant from the point of view of helping you get into a good college or get a good job (or generally provide an enjoyable experience).
    Hope is the denial of reality

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