The amount your thoughts of me influence your behavior here is really funny.Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy
The amount your thoughts of me influence your behavior here is really funny.
So. . . those situations when I am bothering to reply to you? It's funny to you to think about who you're talking to when you're talking to them? Huh. Well, we always knew you were incredibly self-absorbed, so I guess it isn't terribly surprising that you don't do much of it.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Would that be considered professional harm?
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
I'm sure Lewk has long moved on to his next source of racial resentment.
Hope is the denial of reality
I'm not sure how right wing trolls being invited to campuses by Trumpists is suddenly my point - you were the one that brought it up - but my response was to highlight the differences in both response and how the event was organized for Milo vs what happened here. I'm happy to concede there is likely an enormous variance in publicity between the events, but the comparison was your own, not mine.
You personally invited a somewhat controversial speaker for what purpose and in what capacity? What was the controversy? Again, I ask, what do you think would have become of you and your career had you invited a member of the Aryan Brotherhood to speak on the psychopathy of the black mind for continuing education credits. Do you think you would still be employed, or employable?And if you need evidence, I personally invited a somewhat controversial (not for the normal reasons) speaker. They even got a few hundred bucks for coming. No one seriously questioned me. As long as the talk was within normal parameters (location, time, honorarium amount), no one cares.
Last edited by Enoch the Red; 06-10-2021 at 05:15 PM.
Because Milo was good at self-promotion, which led to an equal and proportional response from those who hated him. It's unlikely anyone but this small center was aware this was happening
They've said gender-related things that aren't exactly consistent with the woke crowd, but they're not known for that (i.e., they're known for other stuff) and the presentations wasn't about that topic. Not that the department (let alone the college) would know. Nobody checks unless it's in the news.You personally invited a somewhat controversial speaker for what purpose and in what capacity? What was the controversy? Again, I ask, what do you think would have become of you and your career had you invited a member of the Aryan Brotherhood to speak on the psychopathy of the black mind for continuing education credits. Do you think you would still be employed, or employable?
I work in a public college in the South. I'm sure it would make me enemies within the college, but there's no way in hell that would cost me by job. I'm sure the GOP-appointed Regents would see to that. A professor from another college in the same system said the N-word (intentionally) after getting in trouble for saying the N-word. No protests. Still employed.
Last edited by Loki; 06-11-2021 at 06:31 PM.
Hope is the denial of reality
I don't know how you would unintentionally say that word, but I guess it raises some questions about the context. Did they say the N-word like Donald McNeil said the N-word? Did they say it in class? To a student? Are they tenured?
I also struggle to believe you are being honest when you say there's no way in hell inviting a member of the Aryan Brotherhood to give a presentation for college credit on the psychopathy of the black mind would not result in you losing your job, but I am happy you think you have that kind of job security.
https://www.wsav.com/news/local-news...ss/1547636182/
And here's one from a private college: https://www.insidehighered.com/quick...ice-reinstated
The latter was the only one of the two to even potentially face consequences (private colleges aren't bound by the 1st amendment).
Hah, it's not that I have job security, it's that my job is ultimately in the hands of Trumpists who were recently investigating teaching about "white privilege". A state legislator (who was supposed to attend an event with me and a few other people) even attacked me personally to college officials for writing an analytical piece criticizing Trump. I'd be at least slightly concerned about my job if I invited some major proponent of critical race theory.
Then again, unlike certain Trumpist groups, I'd never invite someone to campus who didn't have something intellectually rigorous to say. There's no reason for any trolls - right or left - to be invited. Colleges aren't a public soapbox; they're supposed to impart knowledge of a certain quality.
Hope is the denial of reality
A member of Aryan Brotherhood should be treated differently from some rando psychiatrist or whatever, irrespective of any similarities between their statements at any given talk; Aryan Brotherhood is not simply a racist club—it's a massive prison gang and organized crime syndicate whose members must personally commit some gruesome act of violence or other in order to gain membership. If someone were to invite an active member to speak at a college campus event, that would—and should—be more concerning than what happened here.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I think I can pretty well rest my case here. If these are the best examples you are finding then I'm going to go out on a limb and say you would lose your job in a heart beat. My high school English teacher said the N-word too while reading Huck Finn. In college there were English and communication courses where this subject came up where the teachers said it as well. Granted that was in a different, saner time, but the context is clearly important.
I would be shocked if we couldn't find other examples of people with questionable backgrounds and criminal histories being invited to speak on college campuses. For the purpose of this discussion they could be a highly educated, qualified former member of the Aryan Brotherhood whose racial beliefs have not changed.
You do realize the one who said it in a public university didn't even get in trouble (let alone getting fired), right?
Hope is the denial of reality
Meanwhile: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/10/us/cr...rnd/index.html
So much for the whole free speech thing. I guess the GOP only supports free speech when the speech is made by fascists.
Hope is the denial of reality
If you want to teach CRT you can, its just the Florida public school system can't teach it.
And if I'm a Florida student who doesn't think the government should be judging political speech, where do I go?
Hope is the denial of reality
Tell me, do you believe that in context it was being used as a racial slur intended by the speaker to denigrate and demean African Americans? Even the student who made the complaint said she didn't initially feel that way. Is simply uttering this word, regardless of how it was being used, reason to get in trouble or fired? This idea that it is a shibboleth that can be cited, regardless of the actual usage to determine racist intent is infantile. Quoting from a legal brief or assigned reading is not even close to being on par with inviting someone to a campus with the express intent of spreading racial animus - for credit. You and I both know it.
Last edited by Enoch the Red; 06-12-2021 at 02:44 AM.
Have you noticed that all these leftist struggles are plebs oppressing plebs instead of rich oppressing poor, which is the core of leftism?
* Women fighting (pleb) male oppressors
* Sexual collectives fighting (pleb) hetero oppressors
* Muslims fighting (pleb) Christian oppressors
* Black fighting (pleb) white oppressors
Where is the Pleb fighting the rich feudal lord oppressor?
All this sounds like someone is trying to divide people so the rich can go ahead with their plans, no opposition.
At this time you are seeing big investor companies buying real state for crazy prices. It signals that "you will eat cicadas, live in a capsule, you will have nothing and you will be happy" can be real as soon as they become feudal lords who grant you the privilege of using their property in exchange for whatever crazy price they set. If you have a house, do not sell or you and your sons may end up renting for the rest of your lives. In China this is already happening.
Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.
It was needlessly offensive. Sometimes, common decency means not antagonizing other people unless doing so has some major offsetting advantage. I doubt the use of the term in a court case is so integral to the case that the professor has to read it out loud.
What I find offensive is the GOP trying to ban ideas and ostensible libertarians and 1st amendment supporters doing a collective shrug. How about fighting the real battles instead of getting outraged at not being able to use a single word because of its uniquely horrendous history?
Hope is the denial of reality
I don't think there is much more for us to discuss here. If we have reached the point in the conversation where you are calling for punitive measures against professors for quoting a court brief, or a textual work in full to grown adults in college courses, then in the same breath try to claim umbrage at a reaction to that underlying philosophy which would result in those punitive measures, all under the guise of some twisted mangling of "free" speech then I am not feeling like this is a good faith argument. You care no more for free speech than DeSantis does. You want to use it as a bludgeon, not an ideal.
When did I say punitive steps should be taken by their employers? But you're right, we have nothing to talk about when you ignore massive attempts at censorship while taking offense at a handful of racist nobodies. Presumably because one of those affects you more than the other.
Hope is the denial of reality
That certainly seems to be your expected result for an individual who has uttered the profane word and transgressed against the faith.You do realize the one who said it in a public university didn't even get in trouble (let alone getting fired), right?
Again, if you have been indoctrinated to believe a professor who quotes a legal brief in full is a racist nobody for quoting the legal brief in full to a room of adults, without a shred of racial animus, that is on you. If you want me to defend the philosophy that led you to those ridiculous conclusions I will not. Nor will I defend DeSantis for prohibiting the teaching of CRT. A pox on both your houses.But you're right, we have nothing to talk about when you ignore massive attempts at censorship while taking offense at a handful of racist nobodies. Presumably because one of those affects you more than the other.
Last edited by Enoch the Red; 06-12-2021 at 04:33 AM.
The point was that no professor teaching in a Southern public university has any reason to fear losing their job for saying or doing something that offends the left.
The professor is insensitive. You're basically parroting the far right talking point that there is no problem as long as someone isn't going around in a white robe burning crosses. It's almost as if there were multiple levels of offensiveness.
Hope is the denial of reality
It's almost as if you believe a professor being potentially insensitive is the same as inviting a bona fide racist to give a racist lecture for college credit. Saying an insensitive thing might be bad - trying to actively spread and incite racism is much, much worse. That you expect us to believe they are in any way comparable is telling. Your reality is warped, and your full-throated defense of free speech apparently is cut short if someone says something insensitive.
Using potentially offensive terms after being told that they were offensive in a context that did not strictly require the use of those terms is not conducive to a good learning environment. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should.
Time for another anecdote. I had a student who had a mental disorder arising out of a traumatic violent incident. I had this student in a class where violence was not the subject, but I did occasionally use this form of violence as an example. After being made aware of the situation, I changed those examples to something else (nobody asked me to). I had this student in another class which was about violence. There was a whole week about this particular type. The student was given the option to not attend class that week as long as they did an alternate assignment. Everyone being an adult is not an excuse to be an asshole.
Hope is the denial of reality
And openly inviting a racist to give a racist lecture is conducive to a good learning environment? What exactly are you trying to argue here?
I don't buy into the college as a safe space environment, nor do I think that coddling students, especially those well into adulthood creates well adjusted, resilient citizens. I believe that you care deeply about your students, and you want to give them an environment where they can learn and thrive. I don't doubt your good intentions, I just am unsure that it is setting them up for success outside the bubble. Learning can be exceptionally difficult, concepts and ideas, and even life itself can be painful and hard, and need to be grappled with. Pushing ever forward the boundary at which we stop infantalizing our next generations is not the answer.
Last edited by Enoch the Red; 06-12-2021 at 05:11 AM.
Um, there was no learning environment. It was part of some center's discussion series (i.e., extracurricular). And the person in question faced clear consequences for their actions. Your analogy doesn't make sense.
Hope is the denial of reality
It was for continuing education credits, so I assume it was intended in some way to be pedagogical, but regardless that is not and has not been the scenario I have been asking you about for the last two pages. You seemed to indicate you would only receive a certain amount of social stigma for inviting a known racist to preach racism in your university, but under no circumstances would you suffer any professional consequences, because apparently your university didn't fire someone for quoting the n word. Does that seem like a fair summary of your statements?
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