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Thread: "Tax Everything"

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Lewk, a flat tax is regressive. Demanding a percentage of income impacts those who can least afford it.
    Why can't you keep your thoughts and concepts coherent for even two sentences in a row? Yes, a flat tax is regressive and it is exactly what Lewk called for. A percentage of income tax is a proportional tax (and yes, its structure can still mean it has a heavy impact on those who can least afford it. Really, even the most progressive graduated tax scheme is still going to more heavily impact those with less money, all that can be done is to try and minimize that impact)

    Flat tax: Everyone pays the same nominal amount, say $2,000. This is Lewk's desire. Sales and excise taxes are flat taxes though the language they are couched in will confuse some people into thinking they're proportional.
    Proportional tax: Everyone pays the same percentage of their income, the same proportion, say 15%
    Graduated/progressive tax: People pay differing proportions of their income depending on how much they earn, proportions typically/ideally increasing as their total income increases. What is actually used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I mean there may be some exceptions for truly disabled folks. And if it wasn't obvious I also think federal spending is a bit out of whack. We have far too many government employees and pork barrel spending.

    If you reduced the budget by 90%, that's still going to be 2,2000 dollars per person per year (actually more, I didn't bother culling the kids out of the population data). Which is going to be more than anyone who only has part time work (or even full-time work at minimum wage) is going to be able to pay, particularly with spiking housing costs.
    Last edited by LittleFuzzy; 07-24-2021 at 06:10 PM.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Nothing like forcing people making the minimum wage to pay $10k in taxes so that billionaires can get away with only spending petty cash on theirs
    Very few people earn minimum wage. But hey sounds like an incentive to keep the budget low.

  3. #33
    If we're going to do flat taxes, might as well do flat wages as well.
    Spent my days watching and waiting, killed my faith participating
    In this crusade still masquerading as the lie that we're creating
    Blinding lights leave me in silence, hopes and dreams taken with violence
    Right and wrong have made alliance, now I will turn in defiance

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Very few people earn minimum wage. But hey sounds like an incentive to keep the budget low.
    Let's destroy the lives of millions just to force the government to stop keeping the elderly alive. Got it.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Let's destroy the lives of millions just to force the government to stop keeping the elderly alive. Got it.
    Its almost like the rich are already paying more than their fair share and that currently you view the system as keeping poor and elderly alive through dint of their largess.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Its almost like the rich are already paying more than their fair share and that currently you view the system as keeping poor and elderly alive through dint of their largess.

    More than their fair share? You work in insurance, man. They have more to lose, they have to spend more to keep and protect it. Your employer wouldn't charge as much for insurance on a Sentra as they would a Bulgatti, why would you expect government to work any different?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Why can't you keep your thoughts and concepts coherent for even two sentences in a row? Yes, a flat tax is regressive and it is exactly what Lewk called for.
    Hey there, Lewk is the one complaining about a proposed excise tax (on space flights for billionaires) but then conflates it with an income tax (because it would only impact billionaires).

    I was inarticulate in my reply but it's Lewk's love for a national flat tax idea that doesn't make sense. It's especially confounding since he also wants a smaller footprint from teh federal gov't.


  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Hey there, Lewk is the one complaining about a proposed excise tax (on space flights for billionaires) but then conflates it with an income tax (because it would only impact billionaires).

    I was inarticulate in my reply but it's Lewk's love for a national flat tax idea that doesn't make sense. It's especially confounding since he also wants a smaller footprint from teh federal gov't.

    What lol? A national flat tax would be far far far far simpler than the intrusive behavior shaping tax code we have now.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    What lol? A national flat tax would be far far far far simpler than the intrusive behavior shaping tax code we have now.
    What behavior has it shaped in you?
    .

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    What lol? A national flat tax would be far far far far simpler than the intrusive behavior shaping tax code we have now.
    So there we have it: your complaints aren't really about the federal gov't being too "instrusive", you just think it's too bureaucratic. And since you have a simplistic, black & white view of the world, you think states have less bureaucracy and would be more efficient.

    You like to think simplicity makes a complicated/complex world easier and better, but that's just the propaganda of Capitalism and Cognitive Dissonance yanking your chain about Freeeedom!

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Hey there, Lewk is the one complaining about a proposed excise tax (on space flights for billionaires) but then conflates it with an income tax (because it would only impact billionaires).
    It is kinda mind-boggling that the guy who loves flat excise taxes on the lower and middle classes, like the sales tax, hates the idea of a similar tax on luxuries that the rich use.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  12. #42
    But one day he, too, can be a billionaire! He'll never be one of the poors.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    But one day he, too, can be a billionaire! He'll never be one of the poors.
    "Imagine believing everyone is only interested in self interest instead of principle. I'll never be a billionaire but I would never support a billionaire tax."

    But I repeat myself.

  14. #44
    The principle being that there shouldn't be a tax on stuff rich people buy when similar taxes already exist on all kinds of other products? Because there's a need to force the elderly into poverty?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The principle being that there shouldn't be a tax on stuff rich people buy when similar taxes already exist on all kinds of other products? Because there's a need to force the elderly into poverty?
    No you shouldn't tax anyone's stuff.

  16. #46
    Have you considered moving to the tax-free paradise known as Somalia?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Careful guys, we already lost Randblade to bullying.


    Lewk, without getting into how government should work, how would you fund it?
    A. Randblade quit?

    B. Lewk is completely shameless. He's been taking abuse for all his dumb ideologies for a very long time and not only hasn't learned a thing from it, apparently hasn't taken any real offense either.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Proportional tax: Everyone pays the same percentage of their income, the same proportion, say 15%
    Sounds like a flat rate to me.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    A. Randblade quit?
    More likely he banned himself so he could concentrate on other things. Remember the old days when he would ask the moderators to ban him so he could concentrate on studies? One year the moderators were all new and he almost didn't get unbanned because they had no clue what was up.
    .

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Sounds like a flat rate to me.
    While you sound like a flat head to me. I could say that a graduated income tax designed to leave everyone with 51% of their income was also flat. Or one that left everyone precisely the same amount of wealth. Since you want to play semantic games to try and making things more confusing rather than less.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    While you sound like a flat head to me. I could say that a graduated income tax designed to leave everyone with 51% of their income was also flat. Or one that left everyone precisely the same amount of wealth. Since you want to play semantic games to try and making things more confusing rather than less.
    Oh bull shit Fuzzy. You know flat rate is the common understanding RE a "flat income tax." You just want to flex your "superior knowledge" all over GG. Who are you trying to impress?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  22. #52
    Suspect half or more of all people interested in discussing flat tax understand the term as a shorthand for "flat rate tax", and only a small minority understand it as a fixed nominal payment. The proportionality and progressive or regressive nature of a flat tax system can be adjusted in various ways.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Oh bull shit Fuzzy. You know flat rate is the common understanding RE a "flat income tax." You just want to flex your "superior knowledge" all over GG. Who are you trying to impress?
    A "flat rate" tax is commonly understood as a sales tax, and it is regressive. A proportional tax is not regressive, but she mentioned it at the exact same time and as part of the same apparent concept, and in reply to Lewk who literally was talking about a flat nominal amount (not even a sales tax, but a genuinely flat income tax) Which is why I spoke up about her mixing her concepts. The way she does every time.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    "Imagine believing everyone is only interested in self interest instead of principle. I'll never be a billionaire but I would never support a billionaire tax."
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    No you shouldn't tax anyone's stuff.
    Self-interest instead of principle, huh? You don't want a federal sales/excise tax on "stuff", and you don't want a proportional income tax, either -- based on your *principle* that teh gov't is inefficient and intrusive (and maybe that taxation is theft)? I recall you also don't want a corporate tax -- based on your *principle* that it's unfair double-taxation.

    Maybe you think it's in your self-interest to have a gov't so small that it can't fund big, important things for the common good. Like that Grover Norquist guy who wants to shrink it so small it can be drown in a bathtub. But then you'd still have crumbling infrastructure, substandard airports and public buildings, toxic water, lead poisoning, etc.

    Hell, Texas couldn't even keep their electric grid working after a cold snap where people froze to death....so you had to call on FEMA and other federal agencies for help. Last I checked Texas uses more in federal funds than they contribute in taxes, and the oil industry still gets subsidies. Your flat income tax proposal wouldn't actually fix anything, and starving the gov't of revenue won't make us a better nation.


    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    A "flat rate" tax is commonly understood as a sales tax, and it is regressive. A proportional tax is not regressive, but she mentioned it at the exact same time and as part of the same apparent concept, and in reply to Lewk who literally was talking about a flat nominal amount (not even a sales tax, but a genuinely flat income tax) Which is why I spoke up about her mixing her concepts. The way she does every time.
    Sorry.

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