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Thread: Remember when they said it wasn't K-12?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I think they need to fund adult education because you seem to be functionally illiterate.
    They will not, the system is working as intended, for those in power who want it that way, it has worked just fine for that demographic for the last five thousand years.

    They want stupid and emotional people more than they want smart and rational people, this was the design goal after WW2, which was the last time they fiddled with the dial in a major way. WW2 scared the establishment so much, only thing that scares them more is WW3.

    Mostly they were thinking about how to feed the war machine, dumb > intelligent when it comes to a numbers game, train your soldiers and feed them to the meat grinder of war. They only need a few intelligent but they needed far more dumb and that is what we have.

    However the religious types like dumb people too, because they are easier to manipulate, the more followers they have the more power they have.

    The whole abortion thing is nothing to do with female body rights and everything to do with creating an endless supply of dumb pliable soldiers or cult followers, it is a lovely lesson in psychotic control, the game isn't the game you think it is, you are simply fresh meat for the grinder, especially your children and their children's children etc. It is all connected, deprivation leads to desperation leads to easier to control, coerce and manipulate, same deal for dumb or lack of knowledge. It is a theme, a consistent one.

    Crime would all but disappear, if the system was actually setup for helping to maintain equivalence rather than promoting unevenness, so it is the perfect tool to create jobs, a massive policing force of all sorts of kinds, an overly complex legal system with bizarre and byzantine laws that need to be interpreted in order to have judgement is not too dissimilar to a religious legal system and many times slower because procedures have procedures and everyone has technically broken some law or the other, they just don't know it, yet, endlessly wrangling over the meaning of words and intent, making it an opaque process to all but the few who can put up with the exceptions and special rules to somehow extract fair justice as it were.

    The only paradigm shifting event that has upset the balance of this formulae from times of yore is the fact we now are in perhaps what could be called the fourth industrial revolution.

    The need for pliant and dumb workers, worshipers and soldiers is diminishing fast because we have invented something even dumber than humans, mindless robots, they do the same work or close enough for no pay, no time off and never make a mistake, if they break they are replaced for minimal cost. Many people feel like they are a cog in a machine, many people feel like most of the work they do is senseless but they do it because they have bills to pay and options are limited, in theory the masses are free, but in reality the masses are slaves that are paid wages and given the illusion their vote means something.

    In a way, the American Dream is actually a Skinner Box, some people are aware of the game, most are not, those that are aware are either part of it or they simply can not do anything about it if they feel that way, everyone that has tried has basically died an early death or forced into an early retirement.

    Bit ironic that both extremes of the "left" and "right" basically want the same thing, which is to burn the system of hubris to the ground and remake it from scratch, what few real centrists are left with a voice that is still heard are basically being drowned out, the system is warped and broken, it can be fixed, but it won't be.

    Apparently those are the rules and the reality.

    Set your expectations/hope as appropriate.

    Have a great day.

  2. #32
    None, there's a lot to unpack in your post but it was a great read!

    Yep, the system is warped and broken. Everything is broken, even our ability to break through the Cognitive Dissonance. It's like we're experiencing a collective/mass mental health crisis -- exacerbated by the pandemic's impact on every system we've constructed over time, including all the propaganda we like to call information, and even the definitions of Democracy or Freeedom.

    I don't know if this is a fourth industrial revolution, but millions of people are viewed as drags/drains on society, and treated as expendable, or collateral damage. And not just by "the people in power", but our own families, friends, and neighbors. Tribalism is (unfortunately) an enduring human construct, with discrimination/prejudice one of its most powerful symptoms, but Fear is at the top.

    One big problem is that too many of us are afraid of the wrong things, and invest too much energy in denying reality. Maybe it's too difficult to face our truly existential threats, so we use a flawed coping mechanism (diversion)...to argue with guys like Lewk about CRT?

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    None, there's a lot to unpack in your post but it was a great read!

    Yep, the system is warped and broken. Everything is broken, even our ability to break through the Cognitive Dissonance. It's like we're experiencing a collective/mass mental health crisis -- exacerbated by the pandemic's impact on every system we've constructed over time, including all the propaganda we like to call information, and even the definitions of Democracy or Freeedom.
    Propaganda, brainwashing, zealotry, fanaticism, conditioning, belief, system. All are methods of control, as diverse as the personalities that employ and scope/means + goals beyond this discussion to specific groups.

    Every system on paper is flawlessly logically perfect, utterly infallible within their own ideological constraints.

    Every system fails for one singular reason, beyond ignoring various facts like, you can't reduce or ignore what you don't like.

    Control freak type personalities that inherently utterly incompetent for the level of power, authority and influence they wield; psychotic people make some of the best liars not because they are clever, but only because they are so persistent, failure or being wrong is just the cost of doing business in order to be eventually right aka revisionist history or rewrite the laws in their favor etc. As a general, for lack of a better term, force of nature, human nature, a terribly flawed one, but one that exists.

    It is why history does not repeat but reverberates with different harmonics of the same snake in the grass issues, different enough every time or happens on time scales that living memory forgets, so lessons must be learned again, only to be forgotten the moment time notches a fourth or fifth generation of humans.

    It requires eternal vigilance. It is also probably why, for example, both Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Antonin Scalia both stayed in their positions till they died of natural causes rather than retire early and give the reigns to someone younger.

    I don't know if this is a fourth industrial revolution, but millions of people are viewed as drags/drains on society, and treated as expendable, or collateral damage. And not just by "the people in power", but our own families, friends, and neighbors. Tribalism is (unfortunately) an enduring human construct, with discrimination/prejudice one of its most powerful symptoms, but Fear is at the top.
    It is an ill defined term, the conveyance is simply that, industrialization brought luxury to many but not all, mechanization got rid of lowest skilled repetitive labor but allowed people to move up, automation got rid of medium tier labor in exchange for allowing people to reach higher levels of education for even higher end work, then came out sourcing/globalization which screwed up that model for good; for decades we have heard the promise AI, at its lowest tier combined with advanced robotics it will take the current 35-45% of the labor pool of being replaceable to potentially something around 95% of it

    That means lots of high end, high skilled jobs gone, if there was some level of education a tier above PhD then that is what would be needed, i.e. people will need to be in "school" of some fashion between the ages of 4 till effectively 40, in all likelyhood, there would be so little work they all might retire anyway by 44-45 having done their part to the advancement of civilization.

    We are at the start line of that. When it manifests in earnest, the economy and money will become like every other religion, unable to provide service or guidance as what to do with peoples lives. Something well beyond the scope of this thread, which ever philosophical art you could apply to the topic, the answer will most likely be wrong versus the reality that will manifest.

    One big problem is that too many of us are afraid of the wrong things, and invest too much energy in denying reality. Maybe it's too difficult to face our truly existential threats, so we use a flawed coping mechanism (diversion)...to argue with guys like Lewk about CRT?
    This is not a coping mechanism, this is classical divide and conquer, get all the talking heads clucking at each other (mostly over things that are already solved/solvable or flat out not real problems) while the fox steals everything, the fox will get caught, but the fox will blame the dog, because the dog is dumb and looks a bit like the fox, the animals on the farm and the farmer themself will argue, well maybe it could have been the dog. By the time the dog has cleared his name the fox is long gone, every time it happens, they all forget because the fox is clever and finds some new way to emotionally manipulate someone to fight on his behalf while he prospers and the farm dwindles.

    For now, they are useful idiots, the ones that argue amongst themselves, one day, in the not too distant future, the useful idiots will become the useless and they will be dropped along with everyone else, to the curb, like an expendable wrapper on some packaging.

    There is little objective difference in this scheme between the Pharaohs of old and them taking their servants into the afterlife along with all their ill gotten loot that they don't need, you know, because they are dead and well possession of earthly goods only applies while you are alive. Even being a "living god" (that somehow paradoxically actually died) did not prevent those tombs from being looted, funny that.

    At this point, arguing with people is the new form of prayer, the hope of creating a system, where we can all agree, a true miracle. For the most part it does nothing, those that participate get a high, get tired, fall asleep, have a dream, if it is good they don't wake up, if its bad, they come back and argue some more.

    Debate on the other hand, occasionally can be informative and constructive to actually coming up with something to do something to fix what ever. Probably an important difference, might want to ask which one is doing when in the middle of it, not just at any particular part, always, if its getting too emotional its usually a sign its an argument at that point and not a debate. /shrug

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    At this point, arguing with people is the new form of prayer, the hope of creating a system, where we can all agree, a true miracle. For the most part it does nothing, those that participate get a high, get tired, fall asleep, have a dream, if it is good they don't wake up, if its bad, they come back and argue some more.
    Arguing with people (especially on big national issues) is a leisure activity. The point is the process not the end result.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Arguing with people (especially on big national issues) is a leisure activity. The point is the process not the end result.
    You just confirmed what None meant by the difference b/w argument and debate. We all know you're a troll, Lewk. You just want to make teh lib'rul snowflakes cry. That's what makes you feel good. The discussions that follow is what makes me take your bait.


    None, I enjoy your posts because it's like talking with my millennial adult children. They've helped me realize that "convential wisdom" is often just another word for delusional denial, or sclerotic status quo. It's difficult to admit that human beings have created all the problems we complain about, and that to actually CHANGE things, we have to admit that we're a pretty crappy alpha predator species, and essentially hate ourselves for the power struggle dynamics, and the world we've created.

    Cognitive Dissonance seems to be the reason for everything good AND bad. The Human Condition is a hard nut to crack, but we've created it, so it's up to us to figure it out, in all its complexities. And not just for entertainment value, but for future generations. When it comes to what K-12 students are learning, and what teachers are teaching.....if we can't agree on the historical truths of institutional racism and how Capitalism was rooted in slavery, we're in deep shit.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Found the perfect primer for lewk, and it's by one of his favorite authors.

    Click to view the full version
    So... This book got a shout out by none other than Ted Cruz. Showing once again that conservatives are so God damn stupid they don't know how to read.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  7. #37
    By any reasonable definition Kendi is a racist.

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