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Thread: "Work is a False Idol"

  1. #61
    And here you have garment workers trying to steal our hard earned retirements. Where do they get off?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news...2gk?li=BBnb7Kz
    .

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    This article certainly fits here. The premise opposes my arguments but I think it's wrong. People are just getting more comfortable foraging bread lines and SNAP. Either way shareholders (you and me for those haven't been keeping up) are due some comeuppance in the near future stock dive.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...pEG?li=BBnbfcL
    The biggest quits rates were in hospitality & leisure and retail services -- jobs that can't be done remotely. Some of that is people worried about getting sick since the Delta surge. Since many of those jobs don't come with paid sick time or health insurance, let alone wages to afford child care, and they're facing a public that would rather get into a fist-fight than wear masks....it's entirely reasonable to quit.

    That doesn't mean it's because they're "comfortable foraging bread lines and SNAP", or even "living off the dole", as you said. It's pretty hard to qualify for food assistance unless you have young children, and even then it's temporary. And you only qualify for enhanced federal assistance after you've paid into the UI fund AND worked X number of hours AND resided in a state X number of weeks.

    Our "safety net" is a state-specific patchwork that's really hard to maneuver, let alone live on. But you're using old, outdated, and incorrect stereotypes of Welfare from the 60's or 70's to explain today's big re-set in workers' expectations and behaviors?

  3. #63
    I was hoping you would respond to this post, maybe you didn't see it?

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Ideally, people should be working for their own goals and satisfactions...
    More often than not people's goals and satisfaction come from outside work. Work is what they do so they can afford their happiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    ...their employers shouldn't get a huge profit based on predation or exploitation.
    Again I ask who do the employers work for? Yes, they make their living doing their job but they work for whoever is consuming their goods or services and everyone else (such as shareholders) who benefit from the sale of those goods and services. You need to look deeper at who the predators and exploiters are because laying it on the shoulders of the employers is wrong. The employers work for you and me.
    .

  4. #64
    Yeah, I saw your question/indictment about who workers are working for. It's like expecting the end-users of consumer materials to lead the way in recycling, for environmentalism's sake: it sounds good but is fundamentally flawed, because it ignores the political power structures at play.

    Any "deep dive" exposes the paradoxical exploitation; it's the Walmart Effect that promises cheap goods and lots of jobs, paying for temporary infrastructure upgrades, but downplays the fact that small business will become obsolete, or that workers will have to rely on "welfare" to make ends meet. Amazon distribution centers do the same damn thing.

    Yes, American consumerism is the heart of many our problems. Some workers are waking up and saying they don't want to work just to support our obscene consumption; that's not a good model for anything but greed. We've been here before ya know. Even hippies found a way to make money, and support themselves, without selling their souls.

  5. #65
    If employers are screwing you over while ostensibly working for you then obv. they're not very good workers and should be disciplined. The argument is bankrupt anyway. The posited relationship between employers and businesses on the one hand and consumers on the other is tenuous at best; in reality, most employers work for themselves and for their investors more than they work for their customers—which is reflected by their willingness to screw their customers just as they're willing to screw their employees. The only people they won't screw are themselves and their investors. Even if we were to accept that employers are just the helpless puppets of a greedy and bloodthirsty public, the public has empowered govt. to protect those poor helpless employers from its evil demands, through legislation and oversight.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    ... in reality, most employers work for themselves and for their investors more than they work for their customers—which is reflected by their willingness to screw their customers just as they're willing to screw their employees. The only people they won't screw are themselves and their investors. Even if we were to accept that employers are just the helpless puppets of a greedy and bloodthirsty public, the public has empowered govt. to protect those poor helpless employers from its evil demands, through legislation and oversight.
    As a 401K participant I am an investor; buying soup at the cheapest price (Walmart for example) I am a customer. Do you think being both investor and customer is unusual? Your argument that employers will screw customers contradicts the claim they won't screw investors.
    .

  7. #67
    What, exactly, do you think it means to be "screwed"?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #68
    So now Americans don't want to drive buses for a living; immigrants don't qualify, so what do you do? Bring in the National Guard of Course

    Buses must roll whether American workers want to drive them or not!
    .

  9. #69
    Let's see. School bus drivers get paid $20-30/hr, require substantial amounts of training to get licensed, and often have crappy hours and/or part time hours. Oh, and they have to deal with dozens of screaming children - who, by the way, aren't vaccinated. This is an industry which essentially ground to a halt for over a year with nearly no school buses running in large parts of the country. So drivers did a lot of things - they retired early, or got other jobs, or whatever. And getting new drivers hired and trained in the current labor shortage is both expensive and time consuming. So it's not shocking that when you shut down an entire labor pool for a year you have some friction when you try to start up again at full capacity.

    There are secular reasons for the difficulty in finding people to fill certain jobs, yes, but Covid is such a unique one-off that the sharp dislocations we're seeing have little to do with these secular forces.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  10. #70
    School districts were still getting their tax dollars.
    .

  11. #71
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    On the first day of school in Boston last Thursday, school officials reported that more than 1,200 buses ran late and more than 40% did not make it to school in time for the opening bell.

    Still, officials said, it was the the district's best performance for busing students to school on time for the first day of school in some six years.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  12. #72
    Boston Apologetics is a magical thing
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Let's see. School bus drivers get paid $20-30/hr, require substantial amounts of training to get licensed, and often have crappy hours and/or part time hours. Oh, and they have to deal with dozens of screaming children - who, by the way, aren't vaccinated. This is an industry which essentially ground to a halt for over a year with nearly no school buses running in large parts of the country. So drivers did a lot of things - they retired early, or got other jobs, or whatever. And getting new drivers hired and trained in the current labor shortage is both expensive and time consuming. So it's not shocking that when you shut down an entire labor pool for a year you have some friction when you try to start up again at full capacity.

    There are secular reasons for the difficulty in finding people to fill certain jobs, yes, but Covid is such a unique one-off that the sharp dislocations we're seeing have little to do with these secular forces.
    [/quote]

    The districts in my area are offering quite a lot and I looked into it. Unfortunately the hours are incompatible with my current full-time job. If I left it and did the bus-driving and a different part-time job with night hours I'd make more than I do now, but I'd be giving up having a benefits package, so it still wasn't worthwhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    School districts were still getting their tax dollars.
    Yes? And? They were also paying for the training and network to manage online learning on a zero-implementation time-frame. I expect many districts saw their overall costs increase from the pandemic, despite reduced labor costs from not having to use bus drivers, reduced custodial requirements, etc.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    School districts were still getting their tax dollars.
    Have you read the news? US School Boards are elected positions, and they're turning into political action committees.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Have you read the news? US School Boards are elected positions, and they're turning into political action committees.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but they can't use their tax dollars to promote political agenda, right?
    .

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but they can't use their tax dollars to promote political agenda, right?
    Google "York, PA" and you'll see that school boards can indeed "promote" a political agenda --- by "banning" certain books from history curriculum if they cover racism or slavery, and removing books from libraries. Or fighting State Health Dept. mask mandates.

    Look far enough into York County's history, and you'll see the York County Dover School District wanted to teach Creationism, until the SCOTUS weighed in. That's still a touchy subject in these parts.

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