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Thread: Will U.S. Support the Taliban When Russia Attacks Afghanistan?

  1. #1

    Default Will U.S. Support the Taliban When Russia Attacks Afghanistan?

    It worked last time! Only took 10 years for the Ruskies to tuck tail and run.

    Taliban >> U.S. at Nation Building

    Russia Prepares

    1979 Soviet Tanks Roll Into Afghanistan

    2021, It's On!
    Last edited by Being; 08-10-2021 at 01:06 PM.
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  2. #2
    Nobody cares?


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  3. #3
    Honestly just tryna get my head 'round how my country—and others, sure—sent young asylum seekers back to this nightmare, deporting them even as it became clear to everyone how the Talibans' resurgence would play out.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #4
    So Kabul is now a country?
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    So Kabul is now a country?
    Yes, Kabul is the country surrounded by Afghanistan. That is probably not comfortable.
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  6. #6
    It appears more Afghani are willing to live under Taliban control than fight to avoid it. If your country was being taken over by Taliban and your army was incapable of stopping this, what would you do, personally speaking?
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  7. #7
    Democracy isn't something that just springs up in a couple of years. Most people will continue to live their lives as normally as they can.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Democracy isn't something that just springs up in a couple of years.
    How true that is! Just look at Sweden and the UK.
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  9. #9
    tf when you spend 2 trillion dollars, two decades and two hundred thousand lives on a nation building project that holds up for about six minutes after you leave.
    Spent my days watching and waiting, killed my faith participating
    In this crusade still masquerading as the lie that we're creating
    Blinding lights leave me in silence, hopes and dreams taken with violence
    Right and wrong have made alliance, now I will turn in defiance

  10. #10
    Seems that only a very small minority of Afghani citizens wanted democracy. Go figure.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member
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    Meh. Just Meh.
    Congratulations America

  12. #12
    Maybe that My pillow guy was on to something. When he predicted that the antiwoman, antigay, antivax asshole was returning to power this weekend we all just assumed he was referring to trump, not the Taliban.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    tf when you spend 2 trillion dollars, two decades and two hundred thousand lives on a nation building project that holds up for about six minutes after you leave.
    Oh, please, the US has been marking time in Afghanistan for at least a decade. The last serious effort to change the status quo was in 2009-2011, and that was half-hearted at best. Obama was offered a much more robust option but chose for a more modest approach that wasn't expected to achieve any real substantive gains. It's notable that at the time, Biden was advocating for a much more limited effort, heavily relying on special forces in a counterterrorism role with zero effort at nation building. Since things wound down in 2011/2012, the US has been managing the situation indefinitely, but not putting in the attention or resources necessary to change things. Trump and Biden have both been pretty darned clear that they don't give a shit about Afghanistan.

    No one should be surprised that this happened as soon as we pulled out; the only question was how long it would take. I'll admit to being somewhat surprised it took days instead of weeks... but it's not really shocking. The thing that's really inexcusable (even if it's not a fundamental strategic error) is the treatment of the Afghan interpreters/etc., and the generally poor execution of the 'handover', such as it was, to Afghan forces. But the former, while a tragedy and a major moral failing, does not substantively affect the situation, and the latter would only have delayed the inevitable had it been handled properly.

    I do find it a bit rich how many people were harping on the US' continued (and relatively modest) presence in Afghanistan without offering a robust alternative... and how many of them are now aghast at the results.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  14. #14
    Once the cities started falling without a fight, the government officials claiming Kabul would fall in 90 days looked increasingly delusional. It was obvious Kabul would fall without a fight and it would happen in days rather than months.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #15
    Oh, absolutely, once places like Kunduz fell with no appreciable resistance, the writing was on the wall. If you had asked me back before Bagram was evacuated, though, I would have given the government a few weeks, with the possibility of a core around Kabul holding on for longer. But it quickly became apparent that there was not the will nor the capability to mount a substantial defensive action.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Oh, please, the US has been marking time in Afghanistan for at least a decade.
    Not sure what you're disagreeing with?
    Spent my days watching and waiting, killed my faith participating
    In this crusade still masquerading as the lie that we're creating
    Blinding lights leave me in silence, hopes and dreams taken with violence
    Right and wrong have made alliance, now I will turn in defiance

  17. #17
    That we spent all that time and money on nation building... Or that there's any surprise at the results.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    That we spent all that time and money on nation building... Or that there's any surprise at the results.
    I mean, that's what we were supposed to be doing. That was the justification for our being there, originally. That we did not in fact do that was the implied critique I was going for.
    Spent my days watching and waiting, killed my faith participating
    In this crusade still masquerading as the lie that we're creating
    Blinding lights leave me in silence, hopes and dreams taken with violence
    Right and wrong have made alliance, now I will turn in defiance

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Seems that only a very small minority of Afghani citizens wanted democracy. Go figure.
    The current regime the US micromanaged into place wasn't exactly something to write home about. It was barely more than a poorly disguised money laundering operation. Something like 30% of the "warlords" the US considered allies were pedophiles. Beyond the built in conditioning that such things were normal you have a population that was either split that the current state of affairs wasn't a beacon of democracy and the other part thinking that things were better for them before the cheap lipstick was painted over it. It's a no win situation.

    The world, and especially the US, failed hard on helping people get out of the situation. But that's par for the course.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  20. #20
    Last edited by Being; 08-16-2021 at 12:54 PM.
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  21. #21
    2001 just won't let go.

    GTA 3 is coming out this holiday season, Brittany isn't under the control of her dad, and the Taliban are back in control.

    Edit: forgot about affleck and lopez
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 08-16-2021 at 02:17 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  22. #22
    The price of opioids and saffron should slowly decrease as the supply skyrockets. I mean those are two things you just cannot effectively sanction.
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  23. #23
    The Swedish diplomatic mission has evacuated all Swedish personnel, leaving local employees - who have been begging to be evacuated for months - to fend for themselves, with no information or even a goodbye. Their emails and calls have gone unanswered throughout these events. The minister responsible has had no comments other than that we're apparently following the plans that have been drawn up, but, as recently as a week ago, there was no plan for the local staff. Now making some noise about maybe sending some additional planes, but the window for evacuating even those who can get to the airport is rapidly closing, while many others have no realistic prospects of getting there - not least those who'll have to go dark before our lazy-ass govt. deigns to contact them. Throughout Afghanistan, people who have worked closely with our soldiers have been left to their fates, despite struggling for years - under constant threat of torture and execution - to be granted asylum in Sweden. Most have been given the runaround, referred to other countries who've (understandably) referred them back to us. It's just so pathetic and gross. And I can't shake the feeling the final betrayal was as much due to people prioritizing vacations over the lives of friends and colleagues as it was due to callous political disregard.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #24
    Senior Member
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    I think you underestimate the absolute need for denial in a crisis of this sort. If western governments had visibly planned for events as they panned out the fall of the Afghan government would have taken mere hours in stead of days.

    As we can see - in hindsight - being in willful denial can backfire just as hard. With the same effects on the lives of the same people.

    With the only difference that you have the appearance of having made an effort in stead of appearing to have made a serious dick move.
    Congratulations America

  25. #25
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  26. #26
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    I think comparing the two is offensive and dumb.
    Congratulations America

  27. #27
    Watching people fall from a plane as Americans fled is a sickening metaphor.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  28. #28
    2000-2019: the fucking around
    2020-????: the finding out
    Spent my days watching and waiting, killed my faith participating
    In this crusade still masquerading as the lie that we're creating
    Blinding lights leave me in silence, hopes and dreams taken with violence
    Right and wrong have made alliance, now I will turn in defiance

  29. #29
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #30
    on the other hand:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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