Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Transracial/cultural/religious adoptions

  1. #1

    Default Transracial/cultural/religious adoptions

    I've been thinking about the complexities surrounding adoption for some time. In the wake of the BLM protests and the greater awareness surrounding racial issues in the US, I heard a few really interesting stories about black Americans who had been raised in white families, and the way it shaped their perceptions of their own race, where (or if) they 'fit in' anywhere, and whether their white adoptive parents could understand the reality of being black in America, no matter how much they loved their children.

    Then, in hubbub around abortion rights that started last year, I'm sure many of you are aware of the conservative Christian couple holding up a sign declaring their willingness to adopt babies that would otherwise be aborted - in my social circles, such offers were generally met with ridicule and memes (and reasonable points about how that wasn't a substitute for abortion rights), but it still got me thinking about some of the questions associated with adoption.

    And most recently, of course, we have had the SCOTUS opinion on the Indian Child Welfare Act, which while perhaps not addressing the core point of the law, again raised the question about who should be adopting children and under what circumstances.

    My instinct when anyone adopts a child is to view it as a selfless, praiseworthy act. After all, there are far too many 'unwanted' children in the world without stable, loving families, and it seems like an extraordinary act of love and compassion (and, perhaps, justice) for a family to welcome another child into their home and family in order to provide them with a better shot at life. And under such circumstances, I cannot see how the race or religion or culture of the adopting parents (and whether they differ from that of the child) should matter at all - certainly one might argue that such details are irrelevant in the face of a child in need. I think about specific classes of children who are unlikely to find homes in their own culture (e.g. baby girls in parts of Asia, disabled orphans in Russia, etc.) and cannot fault someone who opens their homes and hearts for these children.

    And yet. I am also sympathetic to the view that non-biological children hailing from a different culture, or race, or religion, might lose out when they are adopted into another (generally white, Christian, and American) family. In cases like the ICWA, it's based on indisputable evidence of the widespread harm to entire generations of Native American children when huge numbers of them were adopted outside of their tribes, often forcibly. Even if the individual families felt they were providing these children a better life (and may indeed have provided loving homes), the aggregate effect on the continuity of tribal life and culture was incalculable - some estimates had as many as 1/3 of all Native children being adopted out of their culture prior to the ICWA.

    But things get a bit more complex when you think about transracial adoption that is not likely to cause wholesale destruction of the originating culture. Is it wrong for a white couple to adopt a child of color? Are they depriving that child of their cultural heritage, and will they never be able to provide the child with the same innate understanding that might be possible in a family from the same cultural or racial background? Even if such families make an effort to expose the child to their culture of origin, we know that this will be limited at best. It's difficult for the child when they are judged in our society by how they look even if they do not have any of the cultural associations therein - and coming from both broader society and their own culture of origin! I'm thinking about stories about e.g. Chinese American adoptees who don't know any Mandarin and feel out of place in Asian cultural settings, or African American adoptees who are raised with a 'white' attitude towards law enforcement only to get a rude awakening when they grow up. That seems like the child is losing something out. On the flip side, if a white couple looking to adopt only wanted to consider white children, wouldn't we consider that a racist preference? On the face of it, their interest in adopting a child irrespective of the race or cultural background of the child should be lauded, no?

    Finally, we get the thorny issue of religion. I think about that Christian couple at the anti-abortion rally a lot. Because there's a decent chance that someone they did adopt might not come from the same conservative Christian background, or might not even come from a Christian background at all! But it's quite likely that said child would be raised as a conservative Christian. In some ways, this smacks of creepy quiverfull theologies and broader critiques of Christian theology's need to 'save' as many people as possible. Even so, would it be reasonable to expect a devout family who is genuinely trying to provide a loving home for a child *not* to teach this child their beliefs?

    I'm really curious to hear what you folks think about this. We all come from disparate cultures, religious backgrounds, and ethnic/racial makeup. Would you feel comfortable 'imposing' your own worldview and lifestyle on a child who does not come from the same background? What is the best approach that maximizes the number of children who find a good home but mitigates some of the above issues? I genuinely think that the vast majority of adoptive parents want to do what's best for their adoptive child, but it's not always clear that their understanding of the child's best interests are in line with what is actually best for them.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,313
    I am not ready to give an answer about adoption across the lines. But I am a bit puzzled about your issue with that being relevant in a case where the alternative is certain death. It takes for a seriously fanatic religious person to think that being brought up in a different religion is so undesirable that even life isn't too high a price to pay.

    This is not an anti-abortion position by the way. The consideration can only be made in a situation where the pregnant woman already is considering the alternatives for abortion.
    Congratulations America

  3. #3
    I'm a parent to a permanent placement foster*. The race of the child and the adoptive parents is extremely important and can very much make or break family cohesion. But it's also not something that is insurmountable. We definitely asked ourselves if our adoptee may look to Mexican for the placement to be seamless and smooth, especially as she grew up. I think it's crazy that parents can basically shop around for a kid, but also without that flexibility adoptions would pretty cease to happen all together.

    *All the rights of a full adoption, but it leaves the door open for the legal parents to request their rights be restored later on (extremely unlikely in our case, we aren't even sure if the mother is still alive), but the state pays you a monthly allowance and the kid gets a bunch of benefits, like free healthcare and college assistance.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  4. #4
    The religious piece gives me pause but the cultural and racial pieces do not. I'd be curious if there's evidence as to how well a child does in comparison. For example you mention African American children being raised by white families, do those kids have more or less problems with law enforcement growing up than if raised by black families? My first thought is that they will likely have fewer problems with law enforcement and less likely to go to jail but I don't actually know of any empirical study done on it.

  5. #5
    "Finally, we get the thorny issue of religion. I think about that Christian couple at the anti-abortion rally a lot. Because there's a decent chance that someone they did adopt might not come from the same conservative Christian background, or might not even come from a Christian background at all! But it's quite likely that said child would be raised as a conservative Christian. In some ways, this smacks of creepy quiverfull theologies and broader critiques of Christian theology's need to 'save' as many people as possible. Even so, would it be reasonable to expect a devout family who is genuinely trying to provide a loving home for a child *not* to teach this child their beliefs?"

    That need to 'save' children is part of a White Evangelical Christian mission, and it's why Native American children were forcibly removed from their tribes (adoption is the wrong term) and their cultural heritage erased in the first place. See The Carlisle Indian Industrial School, creepy indeed. Another thorny religious issue is that Catholic Charities refuse to let gay couples adopt. More concerned with church dogma than placing a child in a loving family?

    I don't know if whites adopting non-whites is problematic since we have more interracial families and cultural diversity these days, but it would depend on the location. There's still a lot of racism in the US, and if you're the *only* black or brown kid in a town full of white people...

    Anecdotally, my mom was adopted and never cared to know anything about her birth parents. When I got pregnant with my first child they offered me genetic testing 'in case there might be a surprise', and they didn't mean just inherited medical disorders. And now it's common to have adopted kids trying to find their birth parents, unseal adoption records, and DNA test kits to trace genealogy/family trees. Is this a new obsession with blood lines and ancestry or is the science fulfilling a curiosity that's always been there? Maybe it's just me, but I never wonder about my mom's *blood* relatives or want to find them.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    The religious piece gives me pause but the cultural and racial pieces do not. I'd be curious if there's evidence as to how well a child does in comparison. For example you mention African American children being raised by white families, do those kids have more or less problems with law enforcement growing up than if raised by black families? My first thought is that they will likely have fewer problems with law enforcement and less likely to go to jail but I don't actually know of any empirical study done on it.
    how do you manage to always find the absolute stupidest take to everything?

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Anecdotally, my mom was adopted and never cared to know anything about her birth parents. When I got pregnant with my first child they offered me genetic testing 'in case there might be a surprise', and they didn't mean just inherited medical disorders. And now it's common to have adopted kids trying to find their birth parents, unseal adoption records, and DNA test kits to trace genealogy/family trees. Is this a new obsession with blood lines and ancestry or is the science fulfilling a curiosity that's always been there? Maybe it's just me, but I never wonder about my mom's *blood* relatives or want to find them.
    Same on my dad's side. He didn't give a rats ass on finding out who his birth parents are, and as far as I understand from his adopted parents, they were either family or closely connected to his adopted family. My mom constructed her family tree up through our german heritage and the explanation for our roman noses but she never pushed my dad on his. I have no interest in DNA testing.


    I don't plan to keep anything from our foster.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    how do you manage to always find the absolute stupidest take to everything?
    It's just how he was raised
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    how do you manage to always find the absolute stupidest take to everything?
    I tried a few google searches to see levels of criminality when adopted by white parents decreased or not and could not find any studies on it.

  9. #9
    I've been thinking about this since you posted Wiggin, because it's an interesting topic and I found I had very mixed feelings and I've been trying to work things out in my head. And ultimately I'm coming down on there not being an issue of any kind of note about crossing such lines with adoption, with one significant caveat. An adoptive parent should of course be aware of the challenges the children they're raising may face and be preparing them for those challenges as part of responsible parenting but there's no need for any kind of preference or prioritization in the system along such lines. If someone who was adopted wants to explore racial, cultural, or religious backgrounds they should be allowed to and be supported in doing so. Now with arranged adoptions a parent giving up their birth-child may have preferences in the choices they make and that's perfectly ok as well.

    While I understand where you're coming from on the religion issue, in the end I can't help but find it carries too many thematic echoes of oft-repeated racist concerns about how this or that Other group are "out-procreating" sub-group A. It has the same individual-level rebuttal that kind of claim always has: "if it concerns you, make some sacrifices, step up, and do your part"

    The big caveat is wrt tribal adoptions and legislation like the Indian Child Welfare Act. They have a unique legally recognized context in the US which means their stance must be given a degree of deference even if it runs counter to other guiding principles.
    Last edited by LittleFuzzy; 06-28-2023 at 07:14 PM. Reason: typos fixed
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,313
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I've been thinking about this since you posted Wiggin, because it's an interesting topic and I found I had very mixed feelings and I've been trying to work things out in my head. And ultimately I'm coming down on there not being an issue of any kind of note about crossing such lines with adoption, with one significant caveat. An adoptive parent should of course be [i]aware[i] of the challenges the children they're raising may force and be preparing them for those challenges as part of responsible parenting but there's no need for any kind of preference or prioritization in the system along such lines. If someone who was adopted wants to explore racial, cultural, or religious backgrounds they should be allowed to and be supported in doing so. Now with arranged adoptions a parent giving up their birth-child may have preferences in the choices they make and that's perfectly ok as well.

    While I understand where you're coming from on the religion issue, in the end I can't help but find it carries too many thematic echoes of oft-repeated racist concerns about how this or that Other group are "out-procreating" sub-group A. It has the same individual-level rebuttal that kind of claim always has: "if it concerns you, make some sacrifices, step up, and do your part"

    The big caveat is wrt tribal adoptions and legislation like the Indian Child Welfare Act. They have a unique legally recognized context in the US which means their stance must be given a degree of deference even if it runs counter to other guiding principles.
    Maybe the logical approach is to not act as if every specific situation that needs redress is valid for everyone. To me it seems obvious that considerations counteracting conscious attempts to erase ethnicity carry a big weight when you are dealing with individuals from that ethnicity. But that's not true for all cases. What you do need is awareness though of what it means to look what you look like for people who don't look like you. And that's not something you can learn in a short course or a workshop. My partner recently received an invitation to fill out a questionaire about what life in The Netherlands is for people with his background. Initially the reaction was to question why he was in the target audience at all. But then I still learned some new things after having been together for 39 years.
    Congratulations America

  11. #11
    Hi Andrew!

    I'm late to the party, but your message made me think of one, admittedly niche example. There is evidence, I can't be assed to look up the citations but trust me here, that a lot of Finnish migrants to the United States wound up getting involved with Native Americans. I am biased here, I love my language and heritage, but if someone from an also differing culture, native Americans, were a child of a mixed marriage like that, what is the ethical thing?

    I think I am old-fashioned, but I think traditions and cultures should be preserved. Not by force; if someone wants to take a hike, let them, America is the land of opportunity, right?, but speaking as someone from a tiny language-cultural group, I think we, as in all small cultural groups, deserve a fair shake. And no one wants to be an exhibit in a museum, but rather have a living language and a living heritage. And yes yes, I know, heritage not hatred is a negative signal, but that is not what I mean.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #12
    Colin in Black and White on Netflix does a pretty good job of showing all the bullshit kids and parents in adoptions have to deal with when it comes to random strangers. I get that it's a dramatization but some of the interactions in the show we have had almost word for word.

    The movie Instant Family is supposed to be a comedy but we found parts of that relatable too.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  13. #13
    I'm not a fan of "heritage"/nationalism. If people want to waste their lives worshipping their mythical ancestors, that's their choice. But society shouldn't be built on the assumption that everyone must be taught all the cultural traits/history of people who happened to share their skin color or ethnicity. There's no reason for an adopted child to be "exposed" to "their" culture. It's one thing when there's a deliberate attempt to exterminate a culture (see treatment of Native American children), but I see no sense of trying to preserve cultures either. If certain groups don't want children who kind of look like them to leave their in-group, perhaps they should adopt them themselves.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #14
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #15
    Bizarre case. Since everyone is in the US now (which seems to have been a set-up), can't the courts just order a DNA test of the toddler and the cousins raising him?
    Hope is the denial of reality

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •