The Rise of the New Right

[GGT]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/...55267#37455267


We have another 24 hours before the week-long show begins. Thought it might be interesting to have people post their own commentary in advance of the text. (There are videos to watch, but mostly interviews without analysis. Hope I copied the right link....)

When the word Revolution is used, I usually think of it in terms of just general discontent and protests, or an evolving social or political climate. Not violence, militias, or TYRANNY. I get the impression this journalistic expose is geared toward the radical or extreme elements.

Some of this is undoubtedly for media ratings, but politics is heavily tied to media/populism. Chris Matthews is known for being left of center but also a smart and analytical figure who's been involved in politics for a long time. (He used to be a speech writer.)

I hope it will be a thoughtful and balanced show, but who knows. Sometimes the tail wags the dog.

So what do you think about The Rise of the New Right, the conservatives? Not just the GOP and Republicans, but that amorphous group that calls themselves "Conservatives" or "Constitutionalists" *or Tea Partiers*?

Discourse and disagreement is good for society, just like checks and balances. But "what if" our legislators become more of the Palins and Pauls (that most people think have no real chance of being other than a minority...)?

Would that be good, bad, or neutral?

*Has the Right moved far enough away from the Moral Majority to be digestible? Is this just a bunch of selfish, angry white people who use fiscal prudence to get votes and keep power? Is Libertarianism still a philosophy but not politically viable? Is the timing good or bad? *

[']['ear]

Despite all the whining, most of the population actually *likes* our society. We are safe, have a lot of opportunity, tons of rights, and have a robust economy where most of us can make a good living. Why would the vast majority of people support shaking up that system? With a few exceptions, it is better than the large majority of the world.

The "New Right" is really just an effort by the Old Far Right to repackage themselves as some sort of new movement. When people actually come to understand what is going on, there won't be much support for the likes of Rand Paul. Even now, people are scratching their heads over Paul's comments that Obama was being "too hard" on BP. And thus the real complexion of Paul's politics was revealed. Slurping corporations is actually not something that appeals to most Americans. The system is stacked in corporations' favor as it is. Really? Not enough opportunity for corporate profit in the US? Horse shit.

[GGT]

(For those not in the US, Rand Paul is Ron Paul's son. They are not political twins.)

The New Right is similar to the Old Right, but I'm not convinced they're the same. It's very hard to tell, since (like Democrats) they're loath to be too exclusive. That means the militia, the xenophobes, the Christian Conservatives, and even the John Birch Society gets put under the same tent.

I like that we have some skeptics and even paranoid tin-foil hats in our midst, just like we have uber socialist progressives that are dissed as commie pinko communists. It's probably good for our brains that SSSocialists are as derided as much as Conservatives. It gives us pause to evaluate and think.

But after that, it gets quite hard to figure out whom to vote for, and what that vote means. I really don't want to be a single issue voter, but our system seems to foster that. Just two tents, with a bunch of extremists in each.

[GGT]

Despite all the whining, most of the population actually *likes* our society. We are safe, have a lot of opportunity, tons of rights, and have a robust economy where most of us can make a good living. Why would the vast majority of people support shaking up that system? With a few exceptions, it is better than the large majority of the world.

I'm not sure that's what this is all about. When push comes to shove (regardless of that weird thread Dread started) most Americans wouldn't give up citizenship and move to another country. That doesn't mean millions of folks don't think we're on the wrong track, or at least that we could do better. I think we could do better....

The "New Right" is really just an effort by the Old Far Right to repackage themselves as some sort of new movement. When people actually come to understand what is going on, there won't be much support for the likes of Rand Paul.

That's just it. What does "come to understand what's going on" even MEAN? Ask ten people and you'll get a dozen opinions. And it doesn't have much to do with Rand Paul.

Even now, people are scratching their heads over Paul's comments that Obama was being "too hard" on BP. And thus the real complexion of Paul's politics was revealed. Slurping corporations is actually not something that appeals to most Americans. The system is stacked in corporations' favor as it is. Really? Not enough opportunity for corporate profit in the US? Horse shit.

Again, I'm not sure it's so neat and tidy as "corporations vs government". Or even corporations vs individuals, or individuals vs government. I don't think it's so binary. We're too interconnected now.



Having said that, I turned on the television to find Obama addressing the nation, regarding this whole Gulf Coast oil volcano and BP. Gosh, I can't remember that since Bush and the war initiative.

I'm a but glad for this, because maybe NOW, finally, we can have a national energy policy that makes sense. Kinda tired of hearing the same old tripe for 30 damn years.

[Nessus]

When the word Revolution is used, I usually think of it in terms of just general discontent and protests, or an evolving social or political climate. Not violence, militias, or TYRANNY.

Every revolution ever would like to have some words with you

And by words I mean torture you and shoot random people

[GGT]

Every revolution ever would like to have some words with you

And by words I mean torture you and shoot random people

Why do you say that? I witnessed the female reproductive freedom revolution in birth control. My mom didn't burn her bra, but she didn't really have to. I might have been a bit late to the game, but still.

[Nessus]

[']['ear]

GeeGee, that was only a revolution in a metaphorical sense. And actually it was only a slow shift that took over a decade.

[Hazir]

We've got 'New Right' too, the problem is that it's awfully hard to tell them apart from 'Old Left'.

[EyeKhan]

Every revolution ever would like to have some words with you

And by words I mean torture you and shoot random people

Why do you say that? I witnessed the female reproductive freedom revolution in birth control. My mom didn't burn her bra, but she didn't really have to. I might have been a bit late to the game, but still.

Is this a misundertsanding in word usage? Revolution as in cultural upheaval vs revolution as in "Off with Their HEADS!" Maybe.

[']['ear]

We've got 'New Right' too, the problem is that it's awfully hard to tell them apart from 'Old Left'.

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again

Change it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fall that's all
But the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?


There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

[EyeKhan]

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
we all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

We don't need the whole thing, do we.

[']['ear]

Won't get fooled again is more apropos, given the message of the revolution not really changing anything.

[agamemnus]

It's on my DVR....

[Ziggy Stardust]

We've got 'New Right' too, the problem is that it's awfully hard to tell them apart from 'Old Left'.

So true.

[GGT]

Is this a misundertsanding in word usage? Revolution as in cultural upheaval vs revolution as in "Off with Their HEADS!" Maybe.

I generally use it as revolution (small R) as in cultural shifts and trends, but some of the right wing politicians are using it as Revolution. Palin / Bachman / Angler et al, speeches peppered with the suggestion that we should take up arms to take our government back. When the health care bill was being passed, some GOP congress showed up on the balcony with that yellow "Don't Tread on Me" flag (from our Revolution era) and "Kill the Bill" sings. Just egging on the crowd?

Also, the Militia movement that's grown something like five times larger in just five years. Then there's the Tea Party people who show up at rallies with rifles strapped on, and an attitude of "I dare ya...."

[']['ear]

And oddly they think this will garner votes. It's like the photo-negative of Berkeley in the 60s. Why would anybody want anything to do with such nnutjobs?

[EyeKhan]

I hope I'm wrong but I think you'll be surprised how much support these guys have in November.

[']['ear]

If so, only because a large chunk of the population is gullible and believes the press. The press, however, is just trying to conjure stories out of nothing, and thereby generate ratings. Fox, on the other hand, was actually organizing protests and headlining them with their personalities. So we could perhaps call this a Fox-created "revolution." So much for "fair and balanced."

[oldmunchkin]

Quite frankly, this whole New Right shit scares the hell out of me. I really think, if enough of these ding-a-lings are elected, we will see this country go to hell in a handbasket! I really think we might end up repeating history, pre 60's era, and find ourselves losing more and more of our basic rights. I don't think it will ever get to the point of segregation again, but I think women will suffer a huge loss of personal rights, IE reproductive rights. I also think we will see a massive shift in our economy, for the worse!

We have a woman here in Wyoming running for Governor on the platform of "getting the oil, methane, and coal companies OUT of Wyoming"! Jesus Christ on a Crutch! How the hell does she think this state makes the majority of it's tax money? Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, she is proudly stating she is a part of the New Right Movement!

[Hazir]

For who's interested in it; here in Holland the New Right has just been pushed out of the process of forming a new administration.

[Nessus]

For who's interested in it; here in Holland the New Right has just been pushed out of the process of forming a new administration.

[oldmunchkin]

For who's interested in it; here in Holland the New Right has just been pushed out of the process of forming a new administration.

Maybe you should be glad of that! From what I can understand, the "New Right" is for everything the average person is against!

[Flixy]

We have a woman here in Wyoming running for Governor on the platform of "getting the oil, methane, and coal companies OUT of Wyoming"! Jesus Christ on a Crutch! How the hell does she think this state makes the majority of it's tax money? Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, she is proudly stating she is a part of the New Right Movement!

The best way to get oil and methane OUT of Wyoming is to drill it up and sell it

For who's interested in it; here in Holland the New Right has just been pushed out of the process of forming a new administration.

Online reactions to news sites are depressing though, I don't get how it is 'undemocratic' not to include the biggest winner, but it isn't 'undemocratic' to include the biggest loser, or not to include the party which came second by one single seat.

[oldmunchkin]

The best way to get oil and methane OUT of Wyoming is to drill it up and sell it

We are trying dammit. But those fucking dinosaurs liked it here I guess!

Online reactions to news sites are depressing though, I don't get how it is 'undemocratic' not to include the biggest winner, but it isn't 'undemocratic' to include the biggest loser, or not to include the party which came second by one single seat.

Most of the time, in major elections anyway, a single vote doesn't count. Now, in a place like Wyoming or Montana, every single ballot is counted. And yeah, every single candidate is mentioned in the news articles and on Wyoming TV. I suspect it's mostly because almost everyone knows everyone else, so we like to know how Bubba came out in his futile try to get elected. But, we get our ONE Representative in Washington. We have TWO Senators. Nine out of ten times, those THREE votes don't really matter at all, when we are up against places like California with all their seats.

[EyeKhan]

If so, only because a large chunk of the population is gullible and believes the press.

Um, you say it like this is in doubt somehow.

The press, however, is just trying to conjure stories out of nothing, and thereby generate ratings. Fox, on the other hand, was actually organizing protests and headlining them with their personalities. So we could perhaps call this a Fox-created "revolution." So much for "fair and balanced."

It would be nice if true, but I don't think so. In any case we won't be seeing anything serious unfilibustered in the Senate any time soon anyway. Republicans got a lot of mileage out of their no cooperation at all strategy thus far so they'll likely try to capture the presidency with it in two years.

[Flixy]

Oh, something rather funny came out from the Dutch 'new right :

Geert Wilders: Change Jordan's name to Palestine

Rightist Dutch leader wants to end Mideast conflict by finding Palestinians 'alternate homeland'
Roee Nahmias
Geert Wilders, who leads the right-wing Party for Freedom (PVV) in Holland, said last week he believes Jordan should be renamed Palestine. The Jordanian government responded by saying Wilders' speech was reminiscent of the Israeli right wing. "Jordan is Palestine," said Wilders, who heads the third-largest party in Holland. "Changing its name to Palestine will end the conflict in the Middle East and provide the Palestinians with an alternate homeland."
Wilders added that Israel deserved a special status in the Dutch government because it was fighting for Jerusalem in its name.
"If Jerusalem falls into the hands of the Muslims, Athens and Rome will be next. Thus, Jerusalem is the main front protecting the West. It is not a conflict over territory but rather an ideological battle, between the mentality of the liberated West and the ideology of Islamic barbarism," he said.
"There has been an independent Palestinian state since 1946, and it is the kingdom of Jordan." Wilders also called on the Dutch government to refer to Jordan as Palestine and move its embassy to Jerusalem.
The Saudi Al-Watan carried Jordan's response to Wilders' speech. The kingdom's embassy in Hague was outraged, and said the Dutch ambassador would soon be summoned to explain.
Jordan's minister for media affairs and communications, Nabil Al Sharif, asked for clarifications. He described Wilders' declaration as "an echo of the voice of the Israeli Right" and "crows' screams".

"Jordan is an independent and secure country which supports the Palestinian issue, and these imaginings of finding them an alternate homeland are nothing but the delusions of a few people," he said.
The PVV nearly tripled its power in the last election, going from nine parliament seats to 24. The right-wing party, which has called for a ban on minarets and Muslim scarves, has been holding so far unsuccessful negotiations with the liberal Right.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...907722,00.html

[Hazir]

Maybe you should be glad of that! From what I can understand, the "New Right" is for everything the average person is against!

Hardly, if you take out their rampant anti-Islam rhetoric it's a pretty leftist bunch.

[']['ear]

Um, you say it like this is in doubt somehow.

Not meant to be.

It would be nice if true, but I don't think so. In any case we won't be seeing anything serious unfilibustered in the Senate any time soon anyway. Republicans got a lot of mileage out of their no cooperation at all strategy thus far so they'll likely try to capture the presidency with it in two years.

Could be. Are Americans really so dumb that they don't know that the GOP has gone into "all obstructionism all the time" mode? Or if they know, does this not offend them as terrible governance? I was at a political function recently, and talking to the campaign manager of a very moderate Republican in our district. I told him I'd be happy to vote for his candidate if not for one thing: his party will force him into lockstep voting and obstructionism. Consequently, a vote for a moderate like that is effectively a vote for the extremists who are setting the GOP agenda. And that's how polarization of a population works.

[EyeKhan]

Are Americans really so dumb that they don't know that the GOP has gone into "all obstructionism all the time" mode?

Those who approve think this is saving us from socialism. What other choice do Republicans have in the face of Obama's communist agenda? He's not even a citizen ffs!