There is a God

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes there is. At least in this thread there is. And it isn't actually a God as in the Godlike God we relate to when we say God, but the reason why I call it God will be clear at the end of this post. There is a God who came into being the same time the Big Banged. This God is not omnipotent, present or omni-anything, and only has a conscience and focus. This is a curious God, but has limited attention span.

For the first 13.6 billion years it has travelled the universe, watched it expand, zoomed through the nebulae, watched life emerge and go extinct on other planets and a couple of million years ago it stumbled upon our little solar system and stuck around because it was fascinated by dinosaurs and other life on Earth. It watched passively as the meteor struck and marvelled at the resilience of the small creatures who survived and evolved into the mammals we know now. It whooped with excitement when some of the mammals started using tools and started walking upright. In all of his travels around the universe this was the first time it met something which showed potential to communicate with it. It never had considered this possibility, but now it did, it got impatient.

It was amused how these sentient beings started exploring and investigating their world and existence and tried to make sense of it all. The invention of Gods to explain the unexplainable it considered a stroke of genius. These beings could imagine entities which could not be grasped in the physical ... a little like itself. It reasoned because of that, that he may even be able to communicate with them. They seemed just as curious as them and since he was thrilled to learn there were other sentient beings in the universe, surely they would feel the same.

But still, It may have been impatient, It was cautious. This was the first time It had tried anything like this, and It actually wasn't sure this was really a good idea. So, cautiously It approached a few individuals hoping they'd be willing to learn of his existence. The people he approached reacted in a way It didn't expect though. Since they had been attributing the things they couldn't explain as Gods or results of the action of Gods this time was no different. The people he approached were excited to learn of his existence but they didn't understand the nature of his existence. Soon they told many others they have had divine revelations and interpreted that because they had been chosen by God, their ideas of right and wrong, law and order and philosophies was now backed by God. Holy books were written. Disputes about the nature of God erupted. It watched in horror as the stories of his revelations were told and retold, adding and subtracting as they saw fit.

This did not go as he intended. It realized he had made a terrible mistake and any intervention to rectify this mistake would only add to the confusion. It decided it had made his presence known too soon. Best thing to do was to wait a couple of thousand years until this whole situation blew over. Soon they would discover that many claims that were made could not be possible. Soon they'd forget about those claims and would live their lives as if It never had intervened. So It waited.

It is still waiting today.

Spoiler:

I like my God more than any other God mentioned in holy scripture. I hope other people agree with me and join me in believing in this God. This God requires nothing, desires nothing, it just wants to observe and if we can handle it connect with us to share experiences. If we so desire.

[Ominous Gamer]

Uatu?

Spoiler:

[Timbuk2]

Is there some anthropomorphic reason why God changes from an 'it' to a 'he'?

'He' is an 'It' until man appears on the scene.

I thought you might have been doing the clever thing, but then you switch back to 'it', then back and forth again.
So p'raps you're actually just a bit dim. Or forgetful.

Or this god you're so fond of is just existentially uncertain.

~

However, I do like the grammatical licence taken in the phrase; There is a God who came into being the same time the Big Banged.

~

EDIT: In fact it's time to update my sig.

[Khendraja'aro]

If there's indeed something like God, it will be most likely be beyond our understanding and its motivations will be beyond any frames of concepts we can possibly conceive.

Just like an ant won't be able to understand what we humans are doing.

[Spawnie]

Meh, we can understand that there are such things as motivations. Wheras an ant cannot.

I see no reason we would be definitionally unable to comprehend its motivations, nor, if it is physical, its "construction".

[Ziggy Stardust]

Is there some anthropomorphic reason why God changes from an 'it' to a 'he'?

'He' is an 'It' until man appears on the scene.

I thought you might have been doing the clever thing, but then you switch back to 'it', then back and forth again.
So p'raps you're actually just a bit dim. Or forgetful..

I planned to stick to It. So changes are I'm both.

[termite]

I just fed my God and took it for a walk, my God has fleas.

[Lewkowski]

This God requires nothing,

Well yeah I can see how that might be convenient...

[Aimless]

He's a libertarian God

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well yeah I can see how that might be convenient...

Because your all powerful all knowing deity getting upset when unmarried people shag makes so much more sense?

[Nessus]

Because your all powerful all knowing deity getting upset when unmarried people shag makes so much more sense?

It means something is required of him, and fulfilling that arbitrary code of conduct helps him feel good about himself despite being a rather despicable person!

[Lewkowski]

Because your all powerful all knowing deity getting upset when unmarried people shag makes so much more sense?

Well I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion but the idea of an atheist or agnostic turning to your version of a deity would make sense and is convenient for them. After all isn't sin just rule breaking? Under your version of God there would be no rules to break and people could do whatever they want. Ie no morality or ethics. If it feels good do it? Strangely enough few religions have this concept because morality is ingrained in us by our creator. We know there are certain things we should or should not do. Without a God or a judge there is no purpose in having a conscious.

[Nessus]

Well I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion

So you really are here just to troll?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion but the idea of an atheist or agnostic turning to your version of a deity would make sense and is convenient for them.

Convenience my dear lad really doesn't have anything to do with it. I do however notice you're not willing to think about the irrationality of your all-anything deity being upset over trivial matters. Because thinking about it would be inconvenient I guess.

After all isn't sin just rule breaking? Under your version of God there would be no rules to break and people could do whatever they want.

Au contraire. There would still be the same rules to break, as dictated by society. Only sans the immoral bullcrap rules which religion dictates.

Ie no morality or ethics. If it feels good do it? Strangely enough few religions have this concept because morality is ingrained in us by our creator.

Oh, but please do provide some evidence for this obviously flawed idea of morality being ingrained by your creator.

Then look at your laws and compare them to the 10 commandments and recognize that your precious divine morality is not recognized in society today as it is.

We know there are certain things we should or should not do. Without a God or a judge there is no purpose in having a conscious.

Or a judge? God doesn't cut it?

Explain how the Greeks had a working society.

[']['ear]

Well I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion but the idea of an atheist or agnostic turning to your version of a deity would make sense and is convenient for them. After all isn't sin just rule breaking? Under your version of God there would be no rules to break and people could do whatever they want. Ie no morality or ethics. If it feels good do it? Strangely enough few religions have this concept because morality is ingrained in us by our creator. We know there are certain things we should or should not do. Without a God or a judge there is no purpose in having a conscious.

Then why aren't all atheists horrible criminals, and most criminals atheists? If an externally imposed morality is required for decency, doesn't that make you immoral, while those of us who behave morally on our own recognizance are the moral ones? And your God never condoned democracy: he ordered obedience to the Jewish king. So I can assume you are a monarchist?

People are moral for two reasons. First, it is in their collective benefit. By agreeing to a set of societal rules of conduct, their own quality of life is greatly enhanced. Second, there's the golden rule. If you want to be treated decently, you should be decent to others. Being ordered to be decent is only required by mindless sheep who have no moral rudder.

Of course, I can't quite see why we'd discuss this with you. You have perverted the teachings of Christ to a draconian and cruel philosophy.

[LittleFuzzy]

After all isn't sin just rule breaking?

I don't know what it is for your sect, but most do not consider sin to be "just rule breaking" no.

[EyeKhan]

Yes there is. At least in this thread there is. And it isn't actually a God as in the Godlike God we relate to when we say God, but the reason why I call it God will be clear at the end of this post. There is a God who came into being the same time the Big Banged. This God is not omnipotent, present or omni-anything, and only has a conscience and focus. This is a curious God, but has limited attention span.

Why do you insist on calling it god when the only connection to the definition of god is the misunderstanding that occurred when it approached the savages?

and a couple of million years ago it stumbled upon our little solar system and stuck around because it was fascinated by dinosaurs and other life on Earth. It watched passively as the meteor struck and marvelled at the resilience of the small creatures who survived and evolved into the mammals we know now.

A couple? The dinosaurs went bust 65 million years ago. While I understand you're creating myth, don't make the same mistakes as the young earthers.

It watched in horror as the stories of his revelations were told and retold, adding and subtracting as they saw fit.

Why horror? Where's that curiosity? The most interesting thing humanity has done over its history, arguably of course, is conduct warfare. This god thing entity is probably provoking and stoking wars all the time - poking a stick in the anthill to see what happens....

Is there some anthropomorphic reason why God changes from an 'it' to a 'he'?

I noted this too, but I chalked it up to sloppiness on Zig's part. That or the fact he was clearly high when he wrote this.

So p'raps you're actually just a bit dim. Or forgetful.

No, he's not dim. That's apparent in most other posts. I think he's just a pot head.

If there's indeed something like God, it will be most likely be beyond our understanding and its motivations will be beyond any frames of concepts we can possibly conceive.

Just like an ant won't be able to understand what we humans are doing.

I've concluded this as well. Taking the ant metaphor further - they can't even comprehend the extent and nature of our existance. Hell, they don't need or want to, if an ant can want anything. But they can eat us when we're dead.

I see no reason we would be definitionally unable to comprehend its motivations, nor, if it is physical, its "construction".

Of course you don't. Your mind can't comprehend what is incomprehensible. Silly. Just accept it, ant boy. It could be worse, you know. We might be akin to god's intestinal flora. Wouldn't that be slick? And we'd still eat him when he's dead.

What we should be thinking about is how to send an avatar to the ants to try and show them how to live more to our liking - you know, less warfare, more love and stuff. We'll have to figure out how to get that message out far and wide before they kill him, though. You know they will too.

I planned to stick to It. So changes are I'm both.

Changes?

EDIT: Ever hear of editing?

It means something is required of him, and fulfilling that arbitrary code of conduct helps him feel good about himself despite being a rather despicable person!

That's pretty important stuff, you know. Imagine if humanity didn't have a mental out for despicable people. Imagine all the people living life in peace.

Convenience my dear lad really doesn't have anything to do with it. I do however notice you're not willing to think about the irrationality of your all-anything deity being upset over trivial matters. Because thinking about it would be inconvenient I guess.

For today's Faithful, all the thinking's been done already. How convenient is that?

Au contraire. There would still be the same rules to break, as dictated by society. Only sans the immoral bullcrap rules which religion dictates.

Arn't they the same thing?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why do you insist on calling it god when the only connection to the definition of god is the misunderstanding that occurred when it approached the savages?

To accommodate for your little brain so you can relate to it.

A couple? The dinosaurs went bust 65 million years ago. While I understand you're creating myth, don't make the same mistakes as the young earthers.

Yeah, a couple. What's a few million years when you live 13.7 billion.

Why horror? Where's that curiosity? The most interesting thing humanity has done over its history, arguably of course, is conduct warfare. This god thing entity is probably provoking and stoking wars all the time - poking a stick in the anthill to see what happens....

Now you're projecting. A common mistakes many religions have made. I tried not to.

I noted this too, but I chalked it up to sloppiness on Zig's part. That or the fact he was clearly high when he wrote this.

Clearly high is a contradiction.

No, he's not dim. That's apparent in most other posts. I think he's just a pot head.

I'm not just a pot head. I also smell nice.

Changes?

EDIT: Ever hear of editing?

Yeah. Ever hear of deodorant?

Arn't they the same thing?

Be more clear kiddo. You're not making any sense here.

[EyeKhan]

To accommodate for your little brain so you can relate to it.

You know what, this sort of mean is unnecessary.

Yeah, a couple. What's a few million years when you live 13.7 billion.

No no NO! A couple million is a couple million whether you compare it to a single year or 13.7 billion years or a trillion years. Numbers are not squishy like that. Now, if you used "a short time" or some other highly subjective qualitative phrase, you would be correct. Otherwise, your wrongness is absolute.

Now you're projecting. A common mistakes many religions have made. I tried not to.

Bullshit, you projected your level headed compassion all over this "god" thing. The fact is human compassion, which you're so sickeningly steeped in, is a product of our cooperative social nature which is nothing more than a survival characteristic honed through a relatively short period () of evolution. This entity you've concocted doesn't appear to have the same kind of origin, as the story is told. So it has no basis of compassion or sadness of any kind. It's merely curious and so the most interesting things we do would be the things that it gets off on.

Clearly high is a contradiction.

I concede the point.

I also smell nice.

As a smoker? Not likely.

Yeah. Ever hear of deodorant?

Um.

Be more clear kiddo. You're not making any sense here.

I am SO making sense. The rules society dictates and the immoral bullcrap religion dictates are the same thing. Religion is part of society, its not the external gift from god that dingdongs such as Lewk have deluded themselves into believing.

[Ziggy Stardust]

You know what, this sort of mean is unnecessary.

I enjoyed it, and I needed enjoyment. So it was necessary.

No no NO! A couple million is a couple million whether you compare it to a single year or 13.7 billion years or a trillion years. Numbers are not squishy like that. Now, if you used "a short time" or some other highly subjective qualitative phrase, you would be correct. Otherwise, your wrongness is absolute.

Yes yes YES

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/a+couple+of

Adj.1.a couple of - more than one but indefinitely small in number; "a few roses"; "a couple of roses"a few
few - a quantifier that can be used with count nouns and is often preceded by `a'; a small but indefinite number; "a few weeks ago"; "a few more wagons than usual"; "an invalid's pleasures are few and far between"; "few roses were still blooming"; "few women have led troops in battle"

Bullshit, you projected your level headed compassion all over this "god" thing. The fact is human compassion, which you're so sickeningly steeped in, is a product of our cooperative social nature which is nothing more than a survival characteristic honed through a relatively short period () of evolution. This entity you've concocted doesn't appear to have the same kind of origin, as the story is told. So it has no basis of compassion or sadness of any kind. It's merely curious and so the most interesting things we do would be the things that it gets off on.

It's not compassion. It's not sadness. The horror It feels is inability to connect. It watched whole species go down the crapper with interest.

I concede the point.

You better

As a smoker? Not likely.

Ah! But not impossible.

Um.

I rest my case.

I am SO making sense. The rules society dictates and the immoral bullcrap religion dictates are the same thing. Religion is part of society, its not the external gift from god that dingdongs such as Lewk have deluded themselves into believing.

Religion is a part of society. Yes. A part. Not religion is society, nor society is religion. So, no they are not the same thing.

Or to put it another way:
"Au contraire. There would still be the same rules to break, as dictated by society. Only sans the immoral bullcrap rules which religion dictates."

[EyeKhan]

I enjoyed it, and I needed enjoyment. So it was necessary.

I take back my compassion compliment.

Yes yes YES

No no NOOOOOOOOOO!

It's not compassion. It's not sadness. The horror It feels is inability to connect. It watched whole species go down the crapper with interest.

#1. Why horror? #2. Define "crapper."

Religion hasn't "ruined" our civilization. Sure, atheists like you might not like it when women are foced to have rape babies by people like Lewk, but even very religous civilization is very fascinating. And even if this god thing did influence civilization to be more religous than it otherwise would have been, humanity was no less cruel, selfish and homicidal before religion. The unfortunate violation of the Prime Directive merely gave our nature a different flare. It didn't add or subtract from the basic horror of it all. There's no basis for horror, but, clearly, basis for more experimentation.

Religion is a part of society. Yes. A part. Not religion is society, nor society is religion. So, no they are not the same thing.

Or to put it another way:
"Au contraire. There would still be the same rules to break, as dictated by society. Only sans the immoral bullcrap rules which religion dictates."

You ought to senslessly split hairs for a living. You do it well. Monkey.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I take back my compassion compliment.

Good.

No no NOOOOOOOOOO!

#1. Why horror? #2. Define "crapper."

#1 Failure to connect #2 Go extinct.

Religion hasn't "ruined" our civilization. Sure, atheists like you might not like it when women are foced to have rape babies by people like Lewk, but even very religous civilization is very fascinating. And even if this god thing did influence civilization to be more religous than it otherwise would have been, humanity was no less cruel, selfish and homicidal before religion. The unfortunate violation of the Prime Directive merely gave our nature a different flare. It didn't add or subtract from the basic horror of it all.

Religion is a nice tool used to put the blame on God, who's reasons are mysterious and unquestionable. Just see Lewk dodge the sex before marriage bs. Example: Look, I don't hate gay people, but you know, God hates gay stuff, so sorry, no you can't have equal rights.

And when I say without the immoral rules, I'm not saying there won't be immoral rules left, nor that religion has only brought about immorality.

Question: Do atheists like you like it when women are forced to have rape babies by people like Lewk, or am I splitting hairs there?

You ought to senslessly split hairs for a living. You do it well. Monkey.

Well, I am a programmer.

[EyeKhan]

#1 Failure to connect #2 Go extinct.

Religion's not going to make us go extinct, unless you think of consumer capitalist unfettered/guided economic growth as a religion.

Religion is a nice tool used to put the blame on God, who's reasons are mysterious and unquestionable. Just see Lewk dodge the sex before marriage bs. Example: Look, I don't hate gay people, but you know, God hates gay stuff, so sorry, no you can't have equal rights.

Sure, but its not all about blame. And that's only justification afterall. It doesn't change anything for real.

And when I say without the immoral rules, I'm not saying there won't be immoral rules left, nor that religion has only brought about immorality.

Ok.

Question: Do atheists like you like it when women are forced to have rape babies by people like Lewk, or am I splitting hairs there?

No, that's not hair splitting. I don't think, anyway. But also, it doesn't matter. None of this stuff matters, god or no god, free women or women as oppressed property. We will still have war, cruelty and oppression because it is in our nature to visciously protect what's already ours because its also in our nature to visciously try and make more ours at the "Other's" expense, who it is in our nature to fear and mistrust. We can't change any of that and it will (PROBABLY) be the end of our kind.

Well, I am a programmer.

Holy fuckin' shit, you're a programmer? I had no idea.

[Nessus]

Religion's not going to make us go extinct,

The GOP is bound to keep on shoving more and more deranged evangelical nut-jobs up for presidency, and one of those turds is gonna stick to the wall. SARAH 2012 might not do it, but one of 'em will want to kick-start the Rapture and nuke everything around Israel. Then we all get to play global thermo-nuclear warfare! Whether that's enough to extinct us is another question, natch

[Ziggy Stardust]

Religion's not going to make us go extinct, unless you think of consumer capitalist unfettered/guided economic growth as a religion.

Ok, now you're milkshaking my answers around. Not cool!

Sure, but its not all about blame. And that's only justification afterall. It doesn't change anything for real.

Without justification it's going to be rather difficult to implement some of the more loony religious notions.

No, that's not hair splitting. I don't think, anyway. But also, it doesn't matter. None of this stuff matters, god or no god, free women or women as oppressed property. We will still have war, cruelty and oppression because it is in our nature to visciously protect what's already ours because its also in our nature to visciously try and make more ours at the "Other's" expense, who it is in our nature to fear and mistrust. We can't change any of that and it will be the end of our kind.

We can change it and have been changing it for some time. But you're right, none of this stuff matters. As I made clear, the prophet and seers centuries ago were not evil, they were simply mistaken. Sure, they may have been out of their mind, but I think it's a more comfortable idea that they weren't. They simply didn't understand what kind of entity they talked to.

Holy fuckin' shit, you're a programmer? I had no idea.

I am a programmer. My name is Ziggy the Programmer. I arrange, design, and sell programs.

[EyeKhan]

The GOP is bound to keep on shoving more and more deranged evangelical nut-jobs up for presidency, and one of those turds is gonna stick to the wall. SARAH 2012 might not do it, but one of 'em will want to kick-start the Rapture and nuke everything around Israel. Then we all get to play global thermo-nuclear warfare! Whether that's enough to extinct us is another question, natch

I'm not worried because I love The Bomb.

[Nessus]

We'll meet again...

[EyeKhan]

Without justification it's going to be rather difficult to implement some of the more loony religious notions.

DUDE! What planet have you been living on the last 35 years???

We can change it and have been changing it for some time. But you're right, none of this stuff matters. As I made clear, the prophet and seers centuries ago were not evil, they were simply mistaken. Sure, they may have been out of their mind, but I think it's a more comfortable idea that they weren't. They simply didn't understand what kind of entity they talked to.

Uhhhh....

I am a programmer. My name is Ziggy the Programmer. I arrange, design, and sell programs.

You are

We'll meet again...

and

Is drinking water in Finland fluoridated?

[Ziggy Stardust]

DUDE! What planet have you been living on the last 35 years???

Planets

[EyeKhan]

Planets

That explains . . . . . NOTHING!

(I love how the length and quality of our posts gradually whiddle away.... its like art (immitating life).