US Health Care - First in Spending, Last in Everything Else

[EyeKhan]

Ok, to be fair, the US was only second to last in quality. We beat Canada, though we pay double per capita to do it, so.... Guess you don't always get what you pay for, unless you're counting the health care industry as a whole. They pay a LOT in lobbying but they're getting a hell of a bang for their buck.

U.S. Spends The Most On Health Care, Yet Gets Least

by Julie Rovner


Pretty much no matter how you measure it, our health care system stinks.

Once again that's the sobering conclusion of the 2010 version of the annual Commonwealth Fund comparison of the U.S. health system with those in ther industrialized nations.

This year the competitors were Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom. The U.S. finished last.

To come up with the rankings, researchers surveyed both doctors and patients. The criteria comprised quality, access, efficiency, equity, whether people in each country lived long and productive lives, and how much each country spent per person on care. The researchers produced a spiffy interactive graphic to display the results.

But the findings were strikingly similar to those from surveys done in the previous four years. The U.S. spends more — much more — on health care and gets much less value for those dollars.

Overall, the winner in this year's contest was the Netherlands. Interestingly, perhaps, it's a nation that doesn't have a government-run system, but instead achieves universal coverage with an individual insurance mandate, much like the one recently passed by the U.S. Congress. The Dutch were first in access, first in equity, and second in quality of care.

The U.S., by contrast, was last in every category except quality, where it was second to last, squeaking in ahead of Canada. At $7,290 in annual spending per person in 2007, the U.S. also dwarfed second-place Canada at $3,895 and third-place Netherlands at $3,837.

About the only good news for America, said Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis, who was also the study's lead author, is that the new health law could put the U.S. on a path towards improvement.

"We will begin strengthening primary care and investing in health information technology and quality improvement, ensuring that more and more Americans can obtain access to high quality, efficient health care," Davis said.

[Nessus]

But the medical companies have to develop drugs And the rest of the world won't pay for it Sorry Americans, you'll just have to eat that particular bullet for the rest of us!

[Khendraja'aro]

That was my argument, Nessus. For shame!

[EyeKhan]

But the medical companies have to develop drugs And the rest of the world won't pay for it Sorry Americans, you'll just have to eat that particular bullet for the rest of us!

I imagine a ringing in Loki's ears. An itch between his eyes, in some cavity just behind the bridge of his nose, a slight tingling at the very bottom of his ball sack. He knows. He KNOWS!

Ness, this is capitalism at work. We don't want socialism here, it would be too, um, too, well, too, wha's' the word? WHAT'S THE WORK? SENSIBLE? COMPASSIONATE? FAIR? GOOD? I don't know. Take your pick.

Anyway, if a market is set up so an industry can be incredibly wasteful while making gigantic profits and keeping millions of its workers working for good money, who the fuck are the people that depend upon it for their very lives to complain when it bankrupts them or kicks them to the curb? Jesus, you're not seriously suggesting the government take their Money away are you? This is AMERICA!

[Spawnie]

Khen - Actually that was Lokis argument.

[Loki]

http://www.math.yorku.ca/ISR/self.htm

[EyeKhan]

I told you.

[Khendraja'aro]

Khen - Actually that was Lokis argument.

Psssst. Don't tell anyone!

[GGT]

....
Anyway, if a market is set up so an industry can be incredibly wasteful while making gigantic profits and keeping millions of its workers working for good money, who the fuck are the people that depend upon it for their very lives to complain when it bankrupts them or kicks them to the curb? Jesus, you're not seriously suggesting the government take their Money away are you? This is AMERICA!

*cough* oil, autos, financials *cough*

[EyeKhan]

Hey, I can speak from experience that the Auto sector has become vastly less wasteful. (Though the automobile itself is an extraordinary waste, so, you know, pick your metrics...)

[GGT]

Hey, I can speak from experience that the Auto sector has become vastly less wasteful. (Though the automobile itself is an extraordinary waste, so, you know, pick your metrics...)

I didn't mean to derail this from your OP about healthcare, but it was just too rich to see the common thread that runs through our consumer industries. Could probably replace 'wasteful' with 'myopic'. Or even 'exploitative'.

[EyeKhan]

I'd say the Health Care Industry could be described as exploitative. Clearly something's wrong - either in their wastefullness, fraud, sheer over payment, or over testing (FEE for Service YAY!), or whatever. But as a nation we're getting a shitty deal on health care.

[Lewkowski]

I'd say the Health Care Industry could be described as exploitative. Clearly something's wrong - either in their wastefullness, fraud, sheer over payment, or over testing (FEE for Service YAY!), or whatever. But as a nation we're getting a shitty deal on health care.

Well if we stop suing doctors for not running every test under the sun when something does occur...

The big problem is the way insurance works in terms of how people pay for it. There is no incentive to price shop and as such the prices will remain high. Wouldn't it be awesome if insurance said, "Well we will pay $100.00 for exam but if you can find a cheaper provider we'll credit half of the difference to you!"

Then people make trade offs on "do I want the best care or do I want 2nd or third tier care if I can save money!"

[GGT]

Well if we stop suing doctors for not running every test under the sun when something does occur...

Tort reform.

The big problem is the way insurance works in terms of how people pay for it. There is no incentive to price shop and as such the prices will remain high.

True. Can't have cost of CARE transparency with employers doing the negotiating, and paying half the cost for insurance premiums.

Wouldn't it be awesome if insurance said, "Well we will pay $100.00 for exam but if you can find a cheaper provider we'll credit half of the difference to you!"

That's not insurance. That sounds more like a broker or patient advocate we contract with, to find us the best deals in service and price. Wouldn't it be awesome to have that service? You may say insurance operates that way, but it doesn't.

Then people make trade offs on "do I want the best care or do I want 2nd or third tier care if I can save money!"

Again, that's not really insurance, that's shopping. Works okay for electives (when consumers can actually price compare and weigh things) but doesn't work so hot for emergencies.

You want insurance to be the price mediator and cost-saver, but that's just being a broker. When the employer subsidizes the insurance, they become the broker for the employer and not the patient. Instead, insurers take our premiums month after month, year after year, and find ways to NOT pay, or rescind coverage.

That's why we had insurance reform but not healthcare reform.

[agamemnus]

We need national healthcare..

Oh, wait...

[Ziggy Stardust]

Overall, the winner in this year's contest was the Netherlands. Interestingly, perhaps, it's a nation that doesn't have a government-run system, but instead achieves universal coverage with an individual insurance mandate, much like the one recently passed by the U.S. Congress. The Dutch were first in access, first in equity, and second in quality of care.

First we showed them how to build levies. Then we showed them how to clean up an oil spill. Then we showed them how to run healthcare. Crap on a stick guys, can't you do anything without our help?

[EyeKhan]

Well if we stop suing doctors for not running every test under the sun when something does occur...

Or stop paying them each time they run every test they can think of, under the sun. What about that?

The big problem is the way insurance works in terms of how people pay for it. There is no incentive to price shop and as such the prices will remain high. Wouldn't it be awesome if insurance said, "Well we will pay $100.00 for exam but if you can find a cheaper provider we'll credit half of the difference to you!"

They would have to make health insurance products simpler and have uniformity between suppliers before people would be able to do this.

Then people make trade offs on "do I want the best care or do I want 2nd or third tier care if I can save money!"

Or "OMG, I can only afford the worst care! Or, I can't afford care at all! What do I do!?!? And America collectively says "tough for you buddy. Shoulda went to college."

First we showed them how to build levies. Then we showed them how to clean up an oil spill. Then we showed them how to run healthcare. Crap on a stick guys, can't you do anything without our help?

We can liberate your country from Nazi occupation, ant boy. And without your help.

[Being]

...And America collectively says "tough for you buddy. Shoulda went to college."

I don't believe college guarantees access to affordable healthcare. It doesn't even guarantee a job let alone one that provides health benefits.

[EyeKhan]

I don't believe college guarantees access to affordable healthcare. It doesn't even guarantee a job let alone one that provides health benefits.

That wasn't meant to be taken litterally. It was akin to: "tough for you buddy, shoudla got a better job." Or worse "tough for you buddy, shoulda been born to wealthier parents." It's just a statement that mocks the whole bootstrapper "it's your own damn fault you don't have health care you rotten 40 million people!" In their America, if you don't have all you need, its because you're lazy or stupid, or both, and you should take responsibility for your mistakes and shut the fuck up.

[Nessus]

We can liberate your country from Nazi occupation, ant boy. And without your help.

[EyeKhan]

I knew you'd do that.

[Nessus]

I knew you'd do that.

Well it's not exactly a huge secret that I drool to the Nazi bell, now is it, doctor Pavlov

[GGT]

Choobs, we spend too much on the last two years of life, throwing every test and treatment at fatal diseases, even when it's too late to change the outcome.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062800987.html

Delaying Death is easier to do now, but it costs a lot of money. Lots of people want just one more day....

[EyeKhan]

I want a thousand more years. What's that cost?

[EyeKhan]

Well it's not exactly a huge secret that I drool to the Nazi bell, now is it, doctor Pavlov

i almost feel bad, meaning you've got me participating in your mad universe now.

[GGT]

I want a thousand more years. What's that cost?

Ask Alber.


Oh yeah, it might also cost you any cynicism or doubt or hope. You'd have to assume that being transhuman would also mean waking up when they thaw your brain, and load it into a body, that the world is "better" than it is now. Even if it meant living another thousand years in a cockroach skin or bionic body with simulated experiences. Or constant war. Would you do it?

[Nessus]

i almost feel bad, meaning you've got me participating in your mad universe now.

It's Frank's world, we just live in it

[EyeKhan]

Ask Alber.


Oh yeah, it might also cost you any cynicism or doubt or hope. You'd have to assume that being transhuman would also mean waking up when they thaw your brain, and load it into a body, that the world is "better" than it is now. Even if it meant living another thousand years in a cockroach skin or bionic body with simulated experiences. Or constant war. Would you do it?

Ahem, you're adding to much scifi. I want boosterspice. Give me a drug that will peg my physical age at 30 and let me live life as normal. If things get too hairy, I'll take the doctor perscribed suicide pill at my convenience.

It's Frank's world, we just live in it

How do you know about Frank???

[Nessus]

How do you know about Frank???

I'm paid to know things.

(Actually I'm mostly paid to figure things out, but having background information always helps)

[EyeKhan]

I'm paid to know things.

(Actually I'm mostly paid to figure things out, but having background information always helps)

Fine. I don't know anything about Frank. Frank is???