Finland - Learn Your Lesson

[Lewkowski]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe...ing/index.html

(CNN) -- A quarrel between occupants of two vehicles at a McDonald's restaurant drive-through in southern Finland erupted in gunfire Tuesday, leaving three men dead, police said.

Three occupants in one of the vehicles have been arrested, said Peter Fagerholm, a detective inspector in the town of Porvoo.

The two vehicles were in line at the restaurant about 2 a.m. when the quarrel began, Fagerholm said. Shots from a semiautomatic handgun were fired from a Toyota SUV into a convertible driven by a pregnant woman and carrying four men.

Two of the men in the convertible, ages 28 and 45, died at the scene. Another 28-year-old man died Tuesday afternoon at a hospital in Finland's capital, Helsinki, about 50 miles to the west, Fagerholm said. Two of the men were shot in the head, the other in the chest, he said.

The cause of the argument was not immediately known.

"We believe it was a very small issue" that escalated, Fagerholm said late Tuesday. He said he doesn't believe the parties in the different cars knew each other, or that the shooting was preplanned.

The SUV carried one woman and two men, Fagerholm said. One of the men, 41, is the principal suspect. In 1995 he was sentenced to life in prison on one count of murder and two counts of attempted homicide, Fagerholm said. He was released on parole in December. Fagerholm would not release the suspect's name.

Authorities are speaking with witnesses in a third car in the drive-through line.

*****************************************

Sentenced to life in prison and out on parole in 15? Pathetic. Now I'm not saying America is any better we have some pretty stupid courts as well. But seriously you kill someone and try to kill two other people and you only serve 15 years of a life sentence? Talk about stupidity on the part of the courts. If you murder someone you shouldn't see the light of day.

[GGT]

Unless they shoot someone in the back for stealing a tube of toothpaste. Then it's not murder but justice.

[Dreadnaught]

Isn't 15-25 years a standard sentencing time before a convicted murderer is eligible for parole? I think it's the same in the US.

Presumably his semi-automatic handgun wasn't legal.

[Lewkowski]

Unless they shoot someone in the back for stealing a tube of toothpaste. Then it's not murder but justice.

That is self defense.

Isn't 15-25 years a standard sentencing time before a convicted murderer is eligible for parole? I think it's the same in the US.

As I said the US has its own stupidity too. Life should be life without parole, period.

[GGT]

That is self defense.

A tube of toothpaste is not a weapon. But you do tend to think ANY defense of ANY property is justified. Even mortal wounds by vigil ante.

As I said the US has its own stupidity too. Life should be life without parole, period.

So why single out Finland? Maybe the guy got Life (with the possibility of parole), met the guidelines, had a review before the parole board, and was released. Just like an option in the US.

[Nessus]

So why single out Finland?

It happened to be on one of the aggregates he follows; his fiery brand of retribution is mostly doled out in China and Africa (edit: plus Iran who're in the news for it right now, but ssshhh, they're the Enemy right now), so any Western nation is up for grabs depending on where the next looney-toon decides to defend their honour, neighbour or tooth paste. *shrug*

The guy who shot up the cop in the UK was sentenced to 18 weeks for assault, I guess Lewk just saw this one first.

[Ziggy Stardust]

So why single out Finland?

because it's in Europe. Yeah, it really is as simple as that Our Lewkiebaby operates on simple routines. I wonder how he'd do in a Turing test.

[Nessus]

because it's in Europe. Yeah, it really is as simple as that Our Lewkiebaby operates on simple routines. I wonder how he'd do in a Turing test.

I'm sure he'd be upset at US states that fail to execute all murderers and thieves, or at the very least imprison them for life. Hasn't he said as much in earlier jerk-off threads?

[Aimless]

But you know, I'm not sure I understand the complexities of sentencing people to life in prison and then letting them out in 15 years. Does anyone know why the law might work in this way?

[Timbuk2]

At a guess:

They will spend life in prison, unless through good behaviour, reformed character, and ajudged not to reoffend.

Because they can be out on parole after 15 years does not mean they will.

A custodial sentence is not a minimum tariff. It is a sentence which can be reduced if certain criteria are met.

In addition, a minimum tariff can be set. As in this case: 15 years.

[Aimless]

reformed character, judged not to reoffend.

This is kinda what puzzles me. If someone has been sentenced to life then haven't they already made some assessment of his likelihood of reforming or reoffending?

[Timbuk2]

See my edits.

~

No.

Assessment of likelihood of reoffending is for the prison/parole board (ie many years down the line), not the judge or jury.

And with a minimum tariff (15 years) they can't be considered for parole, before that minimum tariff is up.

[Nessus]

But you know, I'm not sure I understand the complexities of sentencing people to life in prison and then letting them out in 15 years. Does anyone know why the law might work in this way?

In Fin-land, for some reason, there's a tradition of the prez pardoning lifers after so many decades; we'll see what changes, if anything, after this

[Nessus]

Vis a vis repeat offenders:

According to a local rag, seven percent of those convicted of murder or other life-depriving act have previous verdicts of that nature, but almost 75% of them have previous assault convictions, or similar. In most cases, the victims of murderers know the criminal beforehand (endemic of the general condition where a vast majority of cases tend to involve drunkards stabbing or shooting other drunkards in their drunken fights). By Lewk's logic, everyone convicted of any violent crime period should be locked away for life, nyet?

[Lewkowski]

So why single out Finland? Maybe the guy got Life (with the possibility of parole), met the guidelines, had a review before the parole board, and was released. Just like an option in the US.

I'm sure it happens in other countries, it was a story that I read recently. The story had an interesting setting (McDonalds drive through) and the killing was senseless. So I have no idea if Finland is any better or worse then other countries in stupidly letting criminals out of prison.

[Unheard Of]

The clear lesson is the the Finns should tighten up their gun control.

[']['ear]

Crime of passion. You never get life for that in the US, either.

But Lewk couldn't pass up a chance to bash on evil socialists. Are we really sure he isn't a joke, or an especially clever spam bot?

[littlelolligagged]

Clever?

Your drugs must be messing with your head again.

[Ominous Gamer]

now I've got a rather depressing image of lewk arguing with cleverbot

[Aimless]

According to a local rag, seven percent of those convicted of murder or other life-depriving act have previous verdicts of that nature, but almost 75% of them have previous assault convictions, or similar. In most cases, the victims of murderers know the criminal beforehand (endemic of the general condition where a vast majority of cases tend to involve drunkards stabbing or shooting other drunkards in their drunken fights). By Lewk's logic, everyone convicted of any violent crime period should be locked away for life, nyet?

Longer minimum sentences + a better process for finding those most likely to reoffend or to kill???

[Nessus]

Longer minimum sentences + a better process for finding those most likely to reoffend or to kill???

"Sodan aikana teidän kaltaisenne olisi ammuttu", but sure

[Aimless]

Aw, come on, I don't understand Finnish!!

[EmperorNorton]

http://translate.google.com/#

[termite]

Shooting people at McDonald's is so passé.