But I thought that as long as we give more power to the government, everything would be ok? :confused:
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But I thought that as long as we give more power to the government, everything would be ok? :confused:
That's an awful lot of words to say nothing. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Loki
You just watch it, kitty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
With all your logical and "making sense" nonsense, you're "this" close to getting tarred and feathered with the rest of 'em. :mad:
I.E. Responsible research.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Here's your pompom since you're playing the role of Loki cheerleader today instead of thinking. :cheerleader2:Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
Not following the rules is not okay. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Oh, I forgot that the government always follows the rules and this is the first exception to that rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Is it actually power if the administration directs the agency not to do anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Jail time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
And only crazy lolbertarians (and unthinking Loki cheerleaders) would suggest otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Nice strawman. On actual topic, I'll bet my left nut against yours the ball park estimates ranging, in total, from 20k to 100k barrels per day are far closer to the mark than BP's estimate of 5k per day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
I'll take that as your first official concession. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
It's easy to be right when the range of your estimate is 4 times your lower bound, and 80% of your upper bound.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
That's like estimating that all the people you see at the mall today will be between 0 and 80. Well, yeah, but...
Yeah, and you'll undoubtedly continue demanding more concessions to the government, despite how abysmally that's worked out in the past (and despite having a link to a brief history on the topic).Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Like Einstein said, only the universe and human stupidity are infinite... and the universe might be finite after all. :p
U.S. Said to Allow Drilling Without Needed Permits
I wonder why the article doesn't mention (actually avoids mentioning) the name of the agency that issues the permits?
I'm looking forward to that actually happening. Don't hold your breath though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Good thing science isn't made by making bets. It relies on something called evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
You (disappointingly) miss the point. The low bound of the range is 4x BP's estimate. The best case is still huge.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
Whatever dude. This just shows one more time that "self-regulation" is complete bullshit and someone's got to enforce the rules on these guys or they're going to fuck us again and again and again. (and again) AND AGAIN and aFUKINGgain.Quote:
Yeah, and you'll blah blah blah.
How the hell did you manage to get that lesson? FFS, there was regulation. The government chose not to apply it. :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Don't talk to me about science. :rolleyes: (And you know I'm right, that's why you didn't take the bet.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
What the fuck are we disagreeing about anyway??? I hate it when you do this. :mad:
Actually, it seems to show "once more," that "government regulation" is complete bullshit... since the rig in question looks to have passed government scrutiny.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Yippie! Guvmint has saved us all again!
The whole point is that these guys are scientists, and therefore have to have strong theoretical and empirical evidence for their claims. :bored: It might very well be true that 100k barrels of oil is being spilled, but you can't make that estimate out of thin air.
Right because the Bush Administration took the "they can regulate themselves" approach and refused to apply the regulations. Its the same as not having the regulations. One more conservative experiment down the fucking tubes and costing us billions and the environment god knows what.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
No it did not pass scrutiny. It was given an illegal nod and was operating without a permit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
The news I read said BP was using some firm in Seattle to estimate the amount of oil being leaked by using a model for smaller finite spills (satellite images and surface area of visible oil slicks) that can't be used on this scale, let alone on an active oil volcano. Some other scientists have offered a better model to use, but they've been told it doesn't really matter, because it won't change the containment attempts.
:bulb:
Good thing the Obama Administration did an about turn in the 13 months it's been in power. Oh wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Erm, under the current law, the regulatory agency had the option to waive regulatory requirement, and this was encouraged by the politicians. :bored:Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Proof that the government can't even be relied upon to enforce the laws it has passed... so the clear solution is to pass more laws for the government to enforce, obviously. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Being
Yippie! Guvmint!
You mean that the government plays politics with regulations/legislation, and doesn't solely rely on the facts? <gasp> How unexpected and unique a development this must be. :downcast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
See above.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
Go here, its the front page story. http://www.npr.org/ Read/listen to it. You will then know first the estimate is just an estimate and no claim otherwise has been made but also it didn't come out of thin air, it came from established and umpteen verified methodology based on observed evidence and lastly that three different estimates were done by three different dudes based on the same evidence and they all came to one identical conclusion - the spill is almost certainly far worse than BP is claiming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Who knew that three estimates using the same assumptions would lead to the same conclusion. That certainly qualifies as additional evidence that those assumptions were correct. :bored: I think I'll take the word of the scientists in question, who themselves admit that more reliable measures have to be created.
Do you have any actual knowledge what the Obama administration policy is on permitting deep sea drilling projects? Do you really think it's the same as GW, Chenney and the boys? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Just read it. This isn't about points dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
EDIT: You know, I just let you do it again. You're arguing these estimates arn't definitive. I never claimed they were. :mad: I just let you get away with having the argument you wanted to have instead of one that I actually posted. :rolleyes:
Well, now, we can't have you doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Clearly, the much more prudent approach is to take the word of politicians and the whims of the mob on this issue.
Well, like every other fucking issue, it seems that the Obama policy is to do exactly the same as Bush and the boys, while claiming the same thing is actually now the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
So... yeah, seems like a safe bet that the Obama policy on deep sea drilling isn't substantively different thatn Bush's.
Erm, source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Um, I do. There were reports that similar exemptions were being given a few weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...nowledges.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Being
While I seriously doubt it, this is the argument Loki wants to have, not the actual argument. It's irrelevant what Obama wants, the permit for this thing was from the Bush Adminsitration. And there were regulations in place that were ignored. If the regulations had been enforced, we likely would not have this disaster. (And before you say it, yeah, its easily possible this was an unforseen circusmtance that would have happened anyway, but judging from what I've heard about the condition of the well head and the skirting of the testing that was apparently done, I'm not so sure)Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
#1. Its not actual knowledge until you post a link to a source. #2. Failure to correct the perimitting policy of the prior administration in one of a large number of agencies is not approval of that prior administration's policy. More likely it was an oversite error or worse beuaracratic negligence. But considering the other major issues the administration has taken on, I'm not surprised they would miss something like that. Maybe they didn't realize the agency wasn't actually regulating anything. Its not like the worker bees stood up when the new boss came in and said "Hey, I don't regulate the oil industry because I get free blow jobs at private parties once a month."Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
I provided the link. And I love how being on Obama fanboy takes precedence over your supposed concern for the environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
Did you read this part of the blog?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Quote:
(MMS) is still illegally exempting dangerous offshore drilling projects in the Gulf of Mexico from all environmental review. It is outrageous and unacceptable.
Dude... you could at least hover over the source he linked to.Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeKhan
"[...]interior-department-continues-to-issue-categorical-exclusions-for-oil-drilling-administration-official-acknowledges.html"
:rolleyes:
Oh, I thought that was a response to Being.Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenCain
What's Obama got to do with this? :confused:
The rig also flies under the Marshall Islands flag, because they have limited regulations on deep oil rigs. When the Coast Guard does inspections they basically just tick off a check list, but on US registered rigs their inspections are more detailed.
I edited my post above. You should read the rest of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki