Several people have chimed in with their verboten youthful sex experiences, and they've not been recognized. I suppose the adopted strategy is that we're such rotten and broken people that we serve as examples of the dangers of youth sexuality, but no one has the stomach to say it out loud. And so it goes.Originally Posted by oldmunchkin
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Or they think y'all are the exceptions where it's been okay, but in general they are uncomfortable with the concept. Not my view, BTW, just hypothesizing.
Can you justify adults subjecting kids to significant risk of harm--or just simply taking advantage of them--by saying the consequences weren't so bad?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
A 14 year old and a 19 year old is really pushing it but still can both be at the same high school, both have the same friends, and both have passed puberty along with both still being teenagers.
None of which is true for say a 40 year old and a 14 year old (besides both being past puberty)
First thought on seeing thread title: "uh... we pardon them because they're animals, and thus not morally culpable, I guess? Who's been putting animals on trial? Do we do that? I thought we actually didn't do that." I was thinking there was going to be a baboon who killed his handler or something. Turns out it was just more "hurf durf fry 'em" from everyone's favorite one note poster.
Though doesn't that mean that if you're going to insist on dehumanizing criminals as "animals", doesn't that make them not morally culpable too? <- I realise that may not be the most interesting or profound insight, but this thread isn't exactly triple A material, ya' know?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Once you dehumanize something its easier to take them out back and shoot them like the rabid dogs they are.
We don't have laws against thoughts, just so you know. But again the 14 year old isn't culpable for sleeping with an 18 year old, but the 18 year old is. Why? Because the 14 year old is a minor who can not consent. It is an abuse of power and one that is and should continue to be outlawed.
14 and 19 is not "normal sex play." It is rape. It boggles my mind that you think its perfectly OK for a CHILD to have sex with an ADULT. A child who society doesn't even trust to drive but you think should be fair game for adults looking for a good time. A child who will expose themselves to all sorts of diseases.
You're probably the worst parent I've ever discussed anything with on the internet.
Well since your version of "fun" is getting intoxicated and driving...
And hell yes he should be on the permanent sex offender list.
I shall again remind you that driving age in Europe is either 17 or 18 (with the exception of the Isle of Man).
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
While I realize it's impossible for you to comprehend...a great many 14 year olds are sexually active. Many are fucking around with people in the 18 to 20 year old range. A great many of them never get "caught" unless a pregnancy is involved. 14 year olds are a lot more mature than you seem to realize, especially the girls. It's a pretty widely accepted fact that females mature faster than males. That would be the reason many 14 year old girls who are sexually active, are doing it with BOYS 18 to 20 years old. By that age, they are starting to catch up with the 14 year old girl on a maturity level!
My idea of "fun" seems to be a bit more mature than yours! My idea of fun is going out into the real world and experiencing LIFE! It appears your idea of fun is coming here, starting threads about lynching people who you think are criminals, and insulting some of us who have been around a bit longer than you have! I assume you will be homeschooling your children, and doing your best to lock them away from the real world. After all, if they are in a real school, and are living in the real world instead of your fantasy-land, they might not just meekly go along with your ideals. Of course, that is a good thing, since you would have a high school BOY arrested and convicted of a sex offense for dating your high school GIRL!
Besides, what good is a fucking sex offender registry? Courts still force the custodial parent to allow young (5-10 years old) children to spend unsupervised time with the non-custodial parent who has a whole fucking family full of convicted sex offenders! It's almost as if having a couple of sex offenders in the family is good when it comes to petitioning the court for shared custody!
I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
Atari bullshit refugee!!
look, 14-year-old girls aren't all that mature, even if they may in some ways be more mature than their male peers when it comes to sexual relationships. it's misleading to pretend that they are comparable to adults just because they think they are. not saying this to diss 14-year-olds, just don't think we should get pushed into saying things that aren't necessarily very true just because we disagree with lewk. when I was 18 I was dead sure I was the bees knees. I was smarter and more knowledgable and more insightful and far more mature than almost all adults. needless to say, I was wrong. So if a 14-y-o girl is, in your eyes, like an 18-y-o boy, then she still isn't very mature.
14-y-o girls who're having sex with 18-20 year old boys aren't necessarily mature. allow me to present some alternative interpretations of their behaviour: they're unhappy; misguided; over-confident; risk-taking; over-sexed; they can get away with it; they lack adequate parental guidance and supervision. There are many different possible interpretations. Why are you focusing exclusively on the only positive interpretation?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
And "sex-play" can include making out, or heavy petting fully clothed. It doesn't have to be intercourse. Most kids in HS date by exclusionary groups on their own anyway, especially seniors.
The role of parents has mostly been overlooked in this thread. Whether it's dating an upperclassman, someone with a driver's license, 'meeting the boyfriend', knowing the groups kids are hanging out with, curfews and the rest....parents are obligated to set the rules and enforce them first.
I did this with Loki already, but here goes again in case you missed it:
Why is it wrong?
Because its illegal.
Why is it illegal?
Because its wrong.
. . .
To be fair I think his position is that "it's wrong and thank god it's also illegal".
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
His argument for why its wrong is essentially explaining how its illegal. Which explains nothing, because I could right now, as an administrator for these forums, create a rule that states any forum member living in Texas can not engage in posting to these forums, and then ban Lewk when he posts. When you all go to argue against his banning, I could just simply state that its wrong for Texans to post on these forums, and then use the rule I created as my reasoning for why its wrong. Would you find this to be sufficient reasoning? I don't think you would.
He could, if he wanted to actually discuss something explain:
1) Why a 14 year old can't consent.
2) How its an abuse of power.
Then we can get into things like, "If a 14 year old can't consent to sexual intercourse, if two 14 year olds have sex are they raping each other?" As a means to rate how air-tight whatever reasoning they put forward is.
. . .
Its not wrong because its illegal. Its just plain wrong. If you don't see how adult / child sex is wrong then your moral compass is a very sad state. And I'd suspect you support NAMBLA.His argument for why its wrong is essentially explaining how its illegal. Which explains nothing, because I could right now, as an administrator for these forums, create a rule that states any forum member living in Texas can not engage in posting to these forums, and then ban Lewk when he posts. When you all go to argue against his banning, I could just simply state that its wrong for Texans to post on these forums, and then use the rule I created as my reasoning for why its wrong. Would you find this to be sufficient reasoning? I don't think you would.
He could, if he wanted to actually discuss something explain:
1) Why a 14 year old can't consent.
2) How its an abuse of power.
Then we can get into things like, "If a 14 year old can't consent to sexual intercourse, if two 14 year olds have sex are they raping each other?" As a means to rate how air-tight whatever reasoning they put forward is.
Well fuck!
I'll just say this to Lewk, since I don't want to rewrite the whole reply.
No one is talking about adult/child sex! We are talking about sex between teenagers! Teenagers who attend the same school, take the same classes, attend the same sporting events, mingle every day at school with each other. One of them is 19, one of them is 14, but they are still teenaged, high school students!
I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
Atari bullshit refugee!!
Or in other words you can't really elaborate why its wrong that isn't simply an appeal to emotions or religion? Especially for the age range of 16 - 19. It seems rather silly to equate teenagers with people in their 20's, 30's, 40's, etc. and act as if all age ranges are equivalent, but I guess you personally have to draw the cut-off line somewhere so that you know when to start dehumanizing people.
I don't, because I'm not anywhere near as ridiculous as this statement, and I'm also fully capable of recognizing that a 19 year old who has sex with someone who is 14 likely isn't doing it because they are a pedophile, but instead because they are attracted to people within their age range.And I'd suspect you support NAMBLA.
. . .
He ignores age of consent in some states is 14, within peer groups. That way he can take them out back and shoot them like rabid animals.
No, it's not. There's usually a 2-year band. No one gives a damn about your so-called peer groups.
Hope is the denial of reality
Er. I think this depends very much on the place. Many of my friends were in peer groups in that range, although admittedly most of these were not city folk. Although very rarely were the girls among the older from what I can tell. They were probably too busy being used by 25-year-old perverts
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
ie. maybe things differ between cities and the bush
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Technically, you're wrong. Some state laws allow 14 yr olds to seek physician-prescribed birth control without parental consent. Some states have a five year age band, to accommodate 15-to-17 yr old college students being sex partners with their 20-to-22 yr olds "peers".
Please list those states. Let's see how many out of 50 have that.
Your first point is idiotic. Just because a state allows a 14-year-old birth control doesn't mean it wouldn't arrest the other partner if they were given the information that he was over 16.
And I know of "peer groups" in New Jersey that included people from the ages of 12 to 18. I guess it should be legal for anyone in that group to have sex with one another. Coincidentally, it's generally girls at the bottom end of that spectrum, ones who try oh so hard to seem mature for their age. Of course the very fact that try so hard seems to suggest the opposite.Er. I think this depends very much on the place. Many of my friends were in peer groups in that range, although admittedly most of these were not city folk. Although very rarely were the girls among the older from what I can tell. They were probably too busy being used by 25-year-old perverts
Hope is the denial of reality
Once again, I am not talking about whether or not it is or should be legal. My posts are aimed at the issue of whether or not we have grounds for calling various people perverted evil child-abusing monsters and then shooting them in the head.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I already posted a link about state ages, federal ages. You're also bending genders. 14 yr old males can get condoms and have 16 yr old girlfriends. I could say the same about boys on the lower end of the spectrum, wanting to prove their virility and manhood by bedding an "older" girl. Get over yourself. That's rather how the sexes and age groups flirt and operate. Like a 50 yr old man with an 18 yr old bride.
Chastity belts for everyone until their 21st birthday!
I'm still waiting for a specific list of states that allow sex based on the concept of "peer groups".
Can't you go fight evil strawman somewhere else?
Hope is the denial of reality
Well this certainly explains a great deal about very many of your posts. You're straw-blind aren't you?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Already given. Besides, all you need to do is look at State age of legal marriage, with or without consent from parents/guardians. Yeah, you can be a 14 yr old female in Appalachia and be married to a 19 yr old male. Copulation expected.
Also, 12 yr old and 13 yr old females sometimes end up pregnant, without the State filing charges of rape or statutory rape. Because the father is also 12 or 13 yrs old, maybe even 14. If the best answer to this would be to criminalize sex between 12/13/14 year olds, no wonder we have problems.
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