Is the Eurozone now becoming a single state?

[GGT]

Exactly. I don't particularly care where things get produced generally as I believe in free trade - I no more believe the UK needs to produce my food than I believe I need to be a farmer myself - but in a conversation about local production its not odd to look at that known distortion. I've never brought up that distortion before (which also happens in the US with certain States, I believe from memory Baltimore especially is one city like that) as I'm not a "made in the UK/whatever" kind of person.

What you're talking about has nothing to do with "Freee Trade", but price comparisons. We've talked about sugar tariffs before, but only in a policy context. As a consumer, you'd most likely choose the "cheapest" sugar, even if it came from another nation that subsidized sugar production, and lobbied for no or low import taxes or tariffs.

Local pricing isn't the "distortion". Short term and disconnected thinking is the real problem. ie, it may save millions of consumers and billions of dollars to buy sugar from Brazil, or winter-time citrus from Mexico...but it won't translate into domestic jobs. That's the flaw of globalization that many don't dare to mention. iPads and iPhones are already pricey, and wouldn't be affordable if not assembled in China, with their cheap labor. Many of our manufactured goods operate that way....from athletic shoes to clothing or household goods...to automobiles, and their operating fuel.

People who buy a <more expensive> hybrid or electric fueled car are betting their nation has cheaper electricity and/or a more advanced lithium battery industry, compared to cars that only run on refined oil/gas. Some upgrade to a great engine that runs on premium gas or diesel, but that's hardly the best foundation for a national energy policy.

Geegee, the US is neither a lender of first resort (that's private companies generally) nor even accurately the "lender of last resort" which is the correct phrase used in this context.

The USD is considered the world's reserve currency. Oil contracts are traded in USD. Foreign currencies are pegged against the USD. Like it or not, that's the way it is.

[GGT]

....
Geegee, the US is neither a lender of first resort (that's private companies generally) nor even accurately the "lender of last resort" which is the correct phrase used in this context.

Then you'd be okay with the US bowing out of the IMF, or lending USD from our Federal Reserve to the ECB?

...All sovereign debt is political. But I'm not quite sure what Rand sees as the major threat to the UK, or what he proposes as an alternative.

Awaiting your reply, Rand.

[RandBlade]

Then you'd be okay with the US bowing out of the IMF, or lending USD from our Federal Reserve to the ECB?

I think it'd be a shame (the former) as the IMF does an important job IMO, the US is just one of many lenders of last resort to it. An important one though, if you pulled out I think so would others. As for lending directly, no I have no problem with that whatsoever. In fact I suspect the US already does somewhat.

Awaiting your reply, Rand.

A disorderly collapse of the eurozone would have a devastating effect on financial markets and would need almost dictatorial restrictions on any nations that planned to withdraw due to bad conditions.

[GGT]

I think it'd be a shame (the former) as the IMF does an important job IMO, the US is just one of many lenders of last resort to it. An important one though, if you pulled out I think so would others. As for lending directly, no I have no problem with that whatsoever. In fact I suspect the US already does somewhat.

Yes, our Fed loaned money directly to some British banks. With no strings attached to de-leverage or restructure (asaik), same thing they did with our own banks.

A disorderly collapse of the eurozone would have a devastating effect on financial markets and would need almost dictatorial restrictions on any nations that planned to withdraw due to bad conditions.

A disorderly collapse would be bad for everyone, not just the UK.
Watching you and Hazir argue made me wonder what your alternative is?

[Being]

I doubt there is any alternative other than higher taxes. Austerity for the money makers.

[RandBlade]

A disorderly collapse would be bad for everyone, not just the UK.
Watching you and Hazir argue made me wonder what your alternative is?

Alternative to what?

Typical Being

[GGT]

Alternative to what?

Typical Being

Excuse me, what's Being got to do with my question to you?

You were vehemently disagreeing with Hazir, on everything from the Eurozone as a shared trading coalition to the Euro as a shared currency, defending Cameron's decisions for the UK as a nation-based policy that *some* see as protectionist, or contentious to the overall success of the technical Eurozone.

As I read it, you're taking both sides of the argument, for and against monetary policies. Pro when it comes to anything English, anti when it comes to anything Euro. Yet you want to import/export with the Eurozone, using eurodollars, and! impact their trade and currency policies....while not being part OF it?

[Hazir]

Excuse me, what's Being got to do with my question to you?

You were vehemently disagreeing with Hazir, on everything from the Eurozone as a shared trading coalition to the Euro as a shared currency, defending Cameron's decisions for the UK as a nation-based policy that *some* see as protectionist, or contentious to the overall success of the technical Eurozone.

As I read it, you're taking both sides of the argument, for and against monetary policies. Pro when it comes to anything English, anti when it comes to anything Euro. Yet you want to import/export with the Eurozone, using eurodollars, and! impact their trade and currency policies....while not being part OF it?

Gosh, the first time an American seems to get what the British european position really is; they want to have a say in how WE run our politics but are not willing to have the outcome applied to themselves.

Funny by the way how the future of the United Kingdom all of a sudden is more in question than the future of the European Union.