Should those who don't work be able to afford booze and fags?

[Flixy]

It varies by school. I remember someone tried that in my school and the teachers weren't very happy. They're generally fine with family vacations that require 1-2 absences.

Yeah, same here - especially if parents or other close family have a job that doesn't allow them to take vacation days when the kids have vacation (shipping, for example). And I got a day off to go to the math olympiad

Pfft. What are teachers gonna do? Call the cops and not allow you to go?

Probably give you detention for unauthorized absence, but if it's persistent they may call the inspection services. Not sure what they do, possibly a fine? They can, in bad cases, refer it to social services, child protection, etc. In extreme cases that can lead to shared custody. But that's really rare, only case I can think of was when a 14 year old wanted to sail around the world, solo.

Okay, I got curious so I looked it up. Local authorities have people charged with education who, among other things, oversee absences, and investigate cases like this. School principals have discretion to allow absences but they oversee it all. If something is (allegedly) wrong, they confer with the 'triangle' of the education officer, the DA, and child protection services. Taking your kid out of school for vacation is an offense with a fine up to €2500, and is apparently frequently handed out for parents taking their kids out of school early for vacations without a proper reason.

Int he case of the sailing girl, he didn't want to allow a year of self study while sailing solo around the world, and also referred it to the youth protection services. They thought the plan was irresponsible, and appointed a guardian who gives guidance and supervision to the family. This is apparently also done if there are serious problems with school absence. At the same time, the court appointed a psychologist to check if the girl was mature enough to make a trip. When the court determined the risks were sufficiently diminished about a year later, full custody was back at the parents, and she set sail.

[Aimless]

Yeah, that would fly. A petulant response like that would not end very well for said teacher.

If class participation is required for a passing grade then where's the problem?

[Veldan Rath]

One week out how many for class participation? Really? Fail them for whole year?

[Loki]

One week out how many for class participation? Really? Fail them for whole year?

I've had classes where 5 absences in a semester would lead to an automatic fail.

[Veldan Rath]

As a 1st grader?

[Loki]

Seeing that I was in Russia in first grade, where teachers would call in parents if the student's nails weren't trimmed or if their hair wasn't sufficiently short (and where I had to write each letter of the alphabet for an entire page with my right hand because I was a lefty), I would imagine so.

On a serious note, you have to remember that even though less is taught in first grade, it also takes first graders longer to nail down a concept.

[Veldan Rath]

We were talking about Russia? Who knew?

Well if the vacation it tantamount educational neglect, feel free to call the authorities.

[GGT]

Yep, we are taking the kids to Disney/Universal at the end of the month for a week. They (the schools) are fine with it.

We had lots of parents filing those Disney vacations as "Educational Opportunities". Parents were abusing it by using days at front/back end of planned district days off, to stretch out vacations, in addition to vacation time. Now those "Educational Opportunities" are limited to one per year with day limits, and need to be approved in advance with special forms. Otherwise, it can be considered an Unauthorized Absence.

[Lewkowski]

Pshh, we haven't decided what we will do for Luke's education but if we want to take a vacation in the school year, we'll just take it. Now can we get back to the fag talk?

[Nessus]

If you're poor, it's at least partially your fault.

[GGT]

OK then, let's get back to the fags and booze aspect. As used in the premise of this thread -- smoking and drinking are examples of irresponsible people, who make bad choices, but are welfare recipients. On top of that, they're presumed to be "non-workers", slackers, moochers, etc. Right?

Seems to me Rand is bitching <in narrative form> about "chavs", or Brits "on the dole" who live in government housing and get welfare checks for "not" working...but somehow have enough cash to buy "luxuries" like tobacco or booze. That transgressed into education, with all sorts of presumptions and conflations, from student attendance to parents not knowing if their kids are absent or skipping....and when the school should act as Nanny, or not.

This thread is jumping all over the place. It's silly to think only poor people, or parents accepting some form of gov't assistance, are shitty parents. It's even sillier to correlate smoking or drinking to employment or welfare, and wrap that up in a criticism of bad character. But moving right along....

From what I've heard, the threshold is pretty damn high. If the child is sick and their parents can't afford to see a doctor, they should go to the school nurse and prove that the illness exists. Most other excuses aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Relying on what you've "heard" isn't very reliable, Loki. Many parents who can't "afford" to see a doctor when their child is sick, also live in a "poor" school district --- with NO school nurse. Or it's a district-shared nurse who's only on campus 2-3 times a week. Only sports/athletics departments with trainers and team doctors change the metrics.

If you're poor, it's at least partially your fault. If you're rich and weren't born into the money, it's at least partially because you're "awesome". The higher the probability of you obtaining success in a given background, the more if it your fault if you fail to obtain that success.

Even if you believe that to be true, it shouldn't necessarily be applied to children, minors, or young adults.

[Loki]

*snip*

Pretty sure I've added a "this applies only in the Western world" proviso more than enough times in the past.

And the irony is that YOU probably think the person in the photo has a failing which led to his poverty.

[Nessus]

Pretty sure I've added a "this applies only in the Western world" proviso more than enough times in the past.

And the irony is that YOU probably think the person in the photo has a failing which led to his poverty.

I'm not ashamed of my racism, but you ostensibly hold the pretenses of a 'good man'.

Your proviso seems curious; does the Western World not hold within her bosom the maimed, disabled and afflicted? What causal chain of castigation had you in mind for those born unable to feed themselves? The war veterans? Wherein lies the separating line between those disabled enough to warrant emotion and those cast into useless toil? Is there one to begin with? As you yourself earlier in the thread stated, the lebensunwertes Leben create more of their kind to the detriment of society, should we not dispose of them actively? You seem to prefer the passive approach, why?

[Loki]

I'm not ashamed of my racism, but you ostensibly hold the pretenses of a 'good man'.

Your proviso seems curious; does the Western World not hold within her bosom the maimed, disabled and afflicted? What causal chain of castigation had you in mind for those born unable to feed themselves? Wherein lies the separating line between those disabled enough to warrant emotion and those cast into useless toil? Is there one to begin with? As you yourself earlier in the thread stated, the lebensunwertes Leben create more of their kind to the detriment of society, should we not dispose of them actively? You seem to prefer the passive approach, why?

The Western world has mechanisms in place that allow a vast majority of hard-working people to get ahead in life. The same isn't true for many developing countries.

[Nessus]

The Western world has mechanisms in place that allow a vast majority of hard-working people to get ahead in life. The same isn't true for many developing countries.

And the minority?

[Loki]

And the minority?

I have no problem with government assistance for the disabled.

[Nessus]

I have no problem with government assistance for the disabled.

You stated the exact opposite earlier, who are you, Mittens?

[Loki]

We've had this debate often enough for you to know I don't think the disabled have to watch out for themselves.

[Nessus]

How could I possibly know that after the hateful vitriol you posted?

[GGT]

Pretty sure I've added a "this applies only in the Western world" proviso more than enough times in the past.

And the irony is that YOU probably think the person in the photo has a failing which led to his poverty.

Then you should be more careful with your accusations, even if it's just on this forum. The irony is that you proclaim to be an educated political scientist, with the goal of being an international diplomat.

[Loki]

The irony is that you pretend to be a human being.

[Nessus]

The irony is that you pretend to be a human being.

Lebensunwertes Leben, people

[GGT]

The irony is that you pretend to be a human being.

Quoted for posterity.

In addition, you managed to lump working minorities in with the "disabled".

[Aimless]

As a 1st grader?

Do you plan to vacation with your kids past 1st grade?

[Aimless]

Pshh, we haven't decided what we will do for Luke's education but if we want to take a vacation in the school year, we'll just take it.

If this gets him lower grades, what will you do?

[Aimless]

Nessus should the black and/or immigrant poor who don't work and get govt assistance be able to afford booze and fags?

[Nessus]

They shouldn't get govt assistance at all.

[Loki]

Pshh, we haven't decided what we will do for Luke's education but if we want to take a vacation in the school year, we'll just take it. Now can we get back to the fag talk?

Why bother giving him an education at all? Get him an apprenticeship once he gets puberty.

[Lewkowski]

If this gets him lower grades, what will you do?

Missing a week from school isn't going to tank him. If we decide to go the public school route its not like the classes would be challenging in the slightest.

[Loki]

Work in many classes is incremental, and missing a week might mean that work the following week makes absolutely no sense.