Language and Bigotry

[GGT]

Some recent US events regarding this topic ---

*The young woman testifying in Black English during the Zimmerman trial: the attorneys, press coverage, and social media had different reactions to her speech patterns and dialect. With her admission that she couldn't read cursive very well, and that she grew up speaking Creole, Spanish, and English, there were some 'attacks' on her intelligence, but also her attitude.

*The Paula Deen scandal: her admission under oath (during a discrimination law suit) to previously using "The N Word"; wanting to plan a "Traditional Southern Wedding", with black men wearing Antebellum-era clothing associated with slaves. There have been 'attacks' on her for using a derogatory word in the past, but also her character.


I was going to attempt a poll, but we all know my polls suck, and open-ended questions don't go over very well, either. But it's an important topic, since language touches every aspect of modern life, with degrees of bigotry spoken/typed all over the world (wide web).

Thoughts?

[Loki]

It might help if you have a specific point. Or are you looking for people to say "language is important" or "language is not important"?

[GGT]

It might help if you have a specific point. Or are you looking for people to say "language is important" or "language is not important"?

Seriously, that was your first thought after reading the OP? *sigh*

[GGT]

Let's try this again, using a 1975 humor example that was aired on a major network (when there were only 3) without being censored.

[Loki]

Have you not figured out that your brain is the only one here that functions in this manner? So if your goal is to get the input of other people, you might want to be more flexible with your "demands".

[GGT]

Have you not figured out that your brain is the only one here that functions in this manner? So if your goal is to get the input of other people, you might want to be more flexible with your "demands".

Whoa. I'm not making any "demands". Input is open to any individual's interpretations, reactions, and thoughts. I figured someone would mention "politically correct" speech, and how much that's changed over the years. I thought someone might bring up accents or dialects in English, or ESL. Language is more than just 'words', even tho certain words are assigned more significance, as bigotry 'tags'. It often depends on who's speaking and whom they're speaking to.

However, your opinion of me (and my brain) has nothing to do with the topic. My use of language in creating this thread isn't an open invitation for your forum "bigotry".

[Dreadnaught]

*The young woman testifying in Black English during the Zimmerman trial: the attorneys, press coverage, and social media had different reactions to her speech patterns and dialect. With her admission that she couldn't read cursive very well, and that she grew up speaking Creole, Spanish, and English, there were some 'attacks' on her intelligence, but also her attitude.

I believe it was that she couldn't read cursive at all, which was germaine because it proved she didn't write a note she claimed to write that the prosecution had in evidence.

I think it's bigotry for folks to call it bigotry when people criticize her lack of articulation, when those same people foam at the mouth prejudging Zimmerman as a white..uhh...I mean Hispanic racist.

Not that you're doing this, but this is one of those trials where folks (especially of a certain political persuasion) are far beyond reasonable.

[Aimless]

I think linguistics proves that leftist liberals are evil (but of course government-sponsored linguistics won't support that claim)

[GGT]

I believe it was that she couldn't read cursive at all, which was germaine because it proved she didn't write a note she claimed to write that the prosecution had in evidence.

No, she was being grilled about a note she asked someone else to write to the victim's mother. The defense team was trying to discredit the note because it didn't mention other "facts" she gave to police. That's what defense attorneys are paid to do -- discredit witness testimony, and turn that into "reasonable doubt" for the jury.

<<BTW, I'm not sure many of today's teens know how to read cursive, let alone write it themselves. But if they want to send a personal and private note (to a mother who's buried her dead teenaged son), without using a computer/printer/e-mail/internet, I can see why they might ask a friend with 'pretty' hand-writing skills to take notation. The prosecution should have taken that route, instead of taking the defense team bait that linked language to credibility.>>

I think it's bigotry for folks to call it bigotry when people criticize her lack of articulation, when those same people foam at the mouth prejudging Zimmerman as a white..uhh...I mean Hispanic racist.

Not that you're doing this, but this is one of those trials where folks (especially of a certain political persuasion) are far beyond reasonable.

Bingo! Well, not that I think it's related to "political persuasion", or limited to just this trial....but bigotry has elements of hypocrisy, paradox, and conflict. That's part of its very nature. Thanks for articulating this better than my OP did. Maybe I should have included a sports example to get more "thoughts" on the topic. ie, Washington Redskins.

[Dreadnaught]

Heh, took me a second to make the Washington Redskins connection. Clearly I haven't been reading the news enough.

[Ominous Gamer]

I believe it was that she couldn't read cursive at all, which was germaine because it proved she didn't write a note she claimed to write that the prosecution had in evidence.

Where the fuck do you get your news? The prosecution didn't claim, at any point, that she wrote the letter herself. They flat out admitted that the letter was prepared by a 3rd party, there was no question or suggestions otherwise.

[GGT]

Heh, took me a second to make the Washington Redskins connection. Clearly I haven't been reading the news enough.

Assigning team names and designating team mascots has been a "language and bigotry" issue for decades, in both professional and amateur/collegiate sports. You haven't read the news in twenty years?

[GGT]

I missed a CNN presentation called "The N Word". Maybe I'll catch the re-run, but if anyone has already seen it --- was it a good program?

[Ominous Gamer]

[Ominous Gamer]

but seriously, something wrong with this country

[Lewkowski]

The more people talk about the race the more difficult it is to move past the prejudice of the past. At the end of the day actions matter - when you elect people in office who support state sponsored racism your turning back the clock.

[Aimless]

The more people talk about the race the more difficult it is to move past the prejudice of the past. At the end of the day actions matter - when you elect people in office who support state sponsored racism your turning back the clock.

Yeah this is why republicans hate black people and cops discriminate against them

[GGT]

Wow, LeVar Burton has a 33 year old son?

The most illuminating comparison came from Tim Wise (the 'white cracker' on the panel), comparing his experiences with police, and being "profiled" by his car's traits. I have two sons, but never felt the need to educate them on "procedure" that same way Burton did...

I can attest to many of the discriminatory, profiling, police practices. But I'm on the 'fortunate' end of things as a middle-aged white woman. I could probably exceed speed limits and drive down one-way streets, in a souped up car with tinted windows....but not be asked to step out of the car, let alone put my hands on the hood, or be hand-cuffed and placed in the backseat of the police car while they check my license and registration.

[Loki]

The ignored question is why the police do this profiling.

[Enoch the Red]

but seriously, something wrong with this country
<Video Snipped>

I do all of those same things, only I keep my hands on the steering wheel at 10 and 2, and leave them there throughout the whole process unless asked by the police officer to perform an action. Additionally I'll turn on the interior lights as I'm pulling over. I'm not black, I just thought that it was common sense.

[Lewkowski]

Yeah this is why republicans hate black people and cops discriminate against them

Victimization cults probably had done far more harm then actions taken 50 years ago.

[Aimless]

Victimization cults probably had done far more harm then actions taken 50 years ago.

What actions taken 50 years are you talking about?

[Lebanese Dragon]

That young black ladies attitude did strike me as rude, I didn't understand her non-chalant attitude. My guess it's a defense mechanisms she's adopted to deal with pressure, authority etc... I can see her using that attitude with her parents, with teachers, in this case to these attorneys. I wouldn't take it as a personal attack or whatever toward the person asking the questions; if you do want to get through to this individual (which the attorneys didn't, they just need her to answer questions), you would have to ask her to drop the attitude for a second.

[GGT]

Victimization cults probably had done far more harm then actions taken 50 years ago.

What victimization cults are you talking about?

[Veldan Rath]

Al Sharpton comes to mind.

[GGT]

Al Sharpton is a cult?

[GGT]

My son showed me a youtube video of a popular British talk show, where they discussed names...and if it's acceptable to judge a child by the name chosen by their parents. One woman was such a snotty, snooty snob. She had a bias against any child named Tyler (for some reason), or anyone named for a season or continent. But her own kids are Poppy and India.

She tried to explain why chosen first names matter more than given family surnames. I found the whole thing interesting, illuminating, fascinating, and disturbing.

[Veldan Rath]

Al Sharpton is a cult?

Really? Sharpton is a race pimp. An was once a real player in the Race Card game. If I had a magic wand and could make racism disappear Sharpton would still claim racism (and false rape charges) where ever he went as that is how he makes his living. My only lament is that he will die of old age before that would happen.