I thought you are American?
I thought you are American?
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
front loaders still carry a price premium, and can require extra care to stop them from mildewing or smelling, so that turns some people off from them. I use a top loader washer as well.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Yep.Originally Posted by earthJoker
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
So I was actually right about Amerikans and top loaders. I think it would be hard for me to even find a top loader to buy.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
I think Miele still has a top loader.
Congratulations America
Actually, you can find several toploaders over here: Miele, Bauknecht, AEG, Siemens / Bosch, Indesit,...
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
You're right, though it's slowly changing. Some localities have tax incentives for builders of new homes to install front-loaders. And the water consumption is its own incentive for homes in our drier regions.
My apartment building re-made their shared laundry room about a year ago. We used to have all top-loaders. All of the contractors who bid on the job installed only front-loaders, so we finally switched to front loaders. I was a big supporter of this, as we increased the total load capacity of the laundry room with the same number of machines. But now we have to have giant signs on the washers in four languages begging people to leave the doors open after the washers are done.
Just a behavior that more Merikans will have to learn over time.
I'm opposed to technology that poses as "smart", but is actually dumb in practice. Front load washers can be more efficient (using less water and electricity) since they use a centrifuge process, instead of forcing clothes up-and-down with agitators. That's why they can accommodate larger loads, and bulky items like comforters, using less water and electricity.
But they become highly inefficient when a "smart" panel uses more hot water for warm wash cycles (because it can't be programmed for cold winter water pipe temps)....or it empties the entire tub of water when the user pauses or re-sets the settings mid-cycle. The lock-out feature on front loaders is a safety feature, but newer top load machines adopted it as an 'industry standard' when it didn't make sense.
The "High Efficiency" tag comes from the industry, when the appliance is used according to lab tests. Well guess what -- those labs don't do laundry like real people. And people don't use home appliances the same as laundro-mats or multiple-user machines in the basement of a co-op. I want the ability to throw misc. 'delicate' or 'lightly soiled' items mid wash cycle, instead of the machine denying access. I don't want a "smart machine" forcing me to begin a whole new load that ends up using MORE water and electricity. That's stupid.
PS - Miele, Bosch, Fischer-Paykel etc, are "high end" appliances in the US.
How often do you have to pause or reset the settings mid-cycle?
Maybe you should think about what you are doing before complaining about the machine being inefficient...
And of course the labs do laundry like "real people", GGT. I'm not quite sure where you got this notion from that home appliances are tested in the same manner as industrial washing machines, but it sure isn't grounded in reality.
/edit: Oh, I probably see now why you're doing that - adding stuff mid-cycle. Because you've got this notion that if you add lightly soiled stuff at a later point to moderately soiled stuff, then it saves something. Well, newsflash: That's a bad idea which actually accomplishes nothing besides being a waste of energy and water.
Sort stuff by grade of soiling and then wash it separately. That's what makes sense and that's how my mother did it. With four kids, by the way.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
You've obviously never done "family laundry".
I've got three brothers and I'm the eldest. Believe me, I've done family laundry.
It's a simple matter of organization. Don't blame the machines if you're too disorganized.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
He was very obviously referring to a person doing family laundry.
I by the way also fail to see why you would want to add items once the cycle has started. We wash 4-5 loads a week and never had the problem. You simply sort the laundry beforehand, then wash using the appropriate program.
Congratulations America
staying organized also saves you from having to get a machine that auto manages the water and soap based on whats in it.*
*I'm assuming your earlier remarks meant the machine was more involved than a dial that says small/medium/large.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Right, I was just too disorganized to wash and dry jock straps and athletic jerseys every evening.
The way you describe your washing habits probably you were spending way too much time with it every day.Right, I was just too disorganized to wash and dry jock straps and athletic jerseys every evening.
In my active days I'd go through 2 sets of underwear, sports clothes, regular clothes and a bunch of big towels every day. We actually wore out our Miele washer and dryer because between us Ronald and I ran them twice a day. Never ever doing the laundry was demanding us to open the machine somewhere halfway down a cycle. I don't remember my mother every doing anything that silly either, and she probably could have run circles around you on any aspect of caring for a family. Given that I had 4 brothers and 5 sisters.
She also held a full time job by the way.
Congratulations America
Who said I "had to" get such a machine? It's a comfort function which also saves me money by being more exact and reliable than I can reasonably be.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
You mixed your mother, your youth, your adult partner, and your adult life, and washing machines in that anecdote.
And I know my laundry needs, and utility bills, better than any washing machine. That's my point. I'm not comforted by an appliance posing as a "smart" time/money saver, when it does the opposite. I want the capability to "throw" lightly soiled dinner napkins (for example) in with a larger load, at the end of the wash cycle.....without a "smart panel" locking me out, or dumping several gallons of water into the sewer system, and starting over. And I don't want a machine telling me to save/hold lots of small items until they make a 'full' load for specialty cycles.
I'm not exactly sure what you think you're gaining by not throwing the small items in there to begin with.
That approach would only make sense for delicate fabrics which you should wash in smaller loads, with different detergents, lower temperatures and decreased spinning speed anyway.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Hello? Items like cotton dinner napkins, or polyester athletic jerseys (with printed logos), can't withstand the same washing as table cloths, or jeans. But they still need to be washed frequently, sometimes daily. There's no way to make up an entire load of small items or "delicates" every damn day, and no "smart" or HE machine should confuse you into thinking otherwise.
And I'm not inclined to buy more bras, underwear, socks, athletic wear, dinner napkins, dish cloths, or kitchen towels....just to keep a "smart" washing machine happy. Don't get me wrong -- I don't object to industry regulations aimed at reducing water or electricity consumption. I just don't think it works when laundry appliances, and its users, are expected to jump hurdles that Golf Courses, Swimming Pools, and Agriculture are exempt.
Last edited by GGT; 03-09-2014 at 01:35 AM.
Let's put it this way; in all my life I have never heard another person expressing the need to add laundry to an already running maching other than for the reason that they had forgotten to put it in to start with.
Congratulations America
And you've never done laundry in the US, either.
edit: I'll put it this way --- utility costs have always been a big factor in US laundry, especially in rural areas with well water and expensive electricity. It's paradoxical that urban areas and commercial sectors have limited consumer abilities, in the name of "conservation", when rural areas had been attempting that for generations. Water and electricity were valued as consumer commodities long before they were recognized as "public goods" by gov't agencies, or industry sectors clamoring for tax credit subsidies.
But I still can't hang my laundry to dry outdoors....because of local ordinances. And I couldn't find a new washing machine that didn't expect me to pay $900 or more for the 'indulgence' of not being a complete moron.
Last edited by GGT; 03-09-2014 at 02:53 AM.
I could place this in Messed up Groove or WTF thread, but it wouldn't mean much in context. While I was shopping for a washing machine replacement, and told the sales staff what I was looking for, one vendor said, "The government won't let us sell what you want". That salesman made a point of saying "the Obama administration won't let you buy what you're looking for", loud enough that other shoppers turned their heads to listen.
I was astounded by those comments, and asked him to explain what he meant. (I already knew that industry standards have about a 10 year lag between regulation and production standards.) He ended up telling a long sob story about going to Vegas for laundry appliance suppliers and vendors....and taking a day trip to Hoover Dam, seeing historical low water levels, and being "outraged" that water wasn't being "respected". The other shoppers had lost interest by that point, and wondered off to the next sales person hawking shiny stainless steel.
Sounds to me like you're doing it wrong. Here's another bit of news for you: The detergents today are not the detergents from 40 years ago.
For example, you don't need to wash everything at 60 °C (140 °F), 40 °C or even 30 °C (104/86) will yield the exact same results.
And before you begin to gripe again about how "experienced" you are: I'm a Chemistry teacher. And one of our courses in Chemistry is a 3 months long course on detergents. I can tell you exactly what kind of chemicals are in there, how it changed over time and what everything is supposed to do.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Oh I am sure they are produced, but the shops have them somewhere in the corner, it's not like you will easily find one.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Our bigger stores (MediaMarkt, Saturn) actually had some on the showroom - not many, granted, but some
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Typically very big stores will have one model and typically that model will be by Miele overhere.
Congratulations America
Alea iacta est
I have been very nervous but things are progressing nicely and now there's a really nice large pass-through in the walland the tiny door into my closet thingy has been widened to the point where it's comfortable to use!
It's been a pretty cool weekend. I can understand why people get addicted to this sort of thing. It's been really cool to see how it's all done, to help, to learn. I've spoken more with my wife's dad in the past couple of days than I have in the past few years I thinkI have probably also inhaled more radon-tainted concrete dust over the past couple of days than I have in my entire life up to now. Most of the drilling, sawing, hammering, wrecking etc is done. This week we paint, set up the cabinet doors, plan some more, sell off a couple of shelves, learn about ventilation... and I will be back at work which is a little :'( but it's mostly outpatient work and good hours which is
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Picture looks like there is a very confused saw-murderer around
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Pulled up Home Depot, one of the big handy man stores in the US, and I counted 23 full size top loaders before a front loader came up when browsing by price.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
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