Organizing daily notes

[Aimless]

I've just (once again) spent a few hours and a great deal of emotional energy going through literally hundreds of folded pieces of paper in search of an A6-sized treasure containing notes from a seminar that are crucial to the resolution of a research-paper that's been the bane of my frickin' existence for a very long time. Although I was finally successful, and am relieved, this episode demonstrates once again the total inadequacy of my approach to note-taking and organisation, and I'd like some tips on approaches that may be better.

My approach is borne out of a need to take notes very quickly and very often over the course of a day (every day), some for short-term use and some for long-term use. Dedicated notebooks fill up extremely quickly and are therefore unsustainable. Taking digital notes on my phone is too slow, even with helpful apps like Swiftkey. Moreover, the phone has difficulties with unorthodox abbreviations and unusual terminology. For these reason, I use the phone inconsistently, and so it isn't a reliable method for me.

I think I may have more success with a phone that lets me write down notes eg. with a stylus and that automatically stores and processes those notes via a suitable services such as evernote, onenote etc. Unfortunately, phones with this sort of functionality seem to be so large as to be unusable by my tiny hands and unsuitable for my tiny pockets.

Whatcha reckon? And what's your approach?

[Spenni]

Surface pro 3

[littlelolligagged]

Would it be possible for you to just scan your notes and then organize them with evernote? Otherwise I'd think, based on your tiny hands and tiny pockets you might consider instead using your phone to collect verbal notes and then make it part of your end-of-day routine to turn them into text.

[GGT]

If you're talking about lecture or class notes.....aren't there are apps for that?

That said, maybe you're not fully present during class lectures or tutorials, since there are apps for that, and it's harder to engage your active, attentive, and inquisitive brain when there are devices supposedly doing it for you?

I may be an old bat, but one thing I've learned over the years is that active, unencumbered listening is worth more than recorded notes or tutorials. Being present in real time has real value.

Consider making that your first daily note, and "organization" will follow suit.

[Aimless]

I'm talking about things that I need to have in writing and easily accessible for later reference. These include notes on patients, useful information I come across in the course of managing those patients, unexpected information or interesting questions, notes from impromptu lectures and various seminars etc. Whatever method I settle on has to involve things that fit in the pockets of my scrubs or jeans

[Spenni]

I would strongly reccomend getting a minni tablet with a stylus or palm pilot... solve all your problems.

[Wraith]

Agree with Spenni. Grab some sort of tablet with a stylus and take notes in OneNote. You can use handwriting, and still have it searchable. You can even get it to record audio/visual, and search within that.

It doesn't need to be the Surface Pro 3 - that's basically an ultrabook; you probably don't need something that big or powerful. You'll probably be most interested in one of the minitablets. I'm not very familiar with that market, so you'll have to do that research yourself.

edit: Right, it sounds like that's still too large.

Maybe paper notebooks, and then scan them in at the end of the day?

[GGT]

I'm talking about things that I need to have in writing and easily accessible for later reference. These include notes on patients, useful information I come across in the course of managing those patients, unexpected information or interesting questions, notes from impromptu lectures and various seminars etc. Whatever method I settle on has to involve things that fit in the pockets of my scrubs or jeans

I understand what you think you need today. Gosh, if physicians from previous non-tech times had the same "pocket dilemmas", the entire field of medicine might have died in the 19th century.

[Aimless]

Agree with Spenni. Grab some sort of tablet with a stylus and take notes in OneNote. You can use handwriting, and still have it searchable. You can even get it to record audio/visual, and search within that.

It doesn't need to be the Surface Pro 3 - that's basically an ultrabook; you probably don't need something that big or powerful. You'll probably be most interested in one of the minitablets. I'm not very familiar with that market, so you'll have to do that research yourself.

I think once I approach that territory it'd make more sense to go with a phablet rather than go for an extra device to carry around. I have however been given a couple of helpful and less-techy ideas, eg. a small thin binder-like thing that I can just fill with loose holed sheaves of A6-paper. It'd get around the cost-issue, let me easily throw away notes I don't need and could perhaps be made to work with eg. photographing or otherwise digitizing notes in order to keep them safe and accessible. One way to do this: http://markrevans.com/2012/08/26/eve...-new-features/

On the techy side of things, I find myself once again keen on trying one of LiveScribe's offerings. Apart from the pen's fatness, it seems like the one solution that checks all my boxes, but that doesn't say much about execution.

[Aimless]

I understand what you think you need today. Gosh, if physicians from previous non-tech times had the same "pocket dilemmas", the entire field of medicine might have died in the 19th century.

Hey why don't you give me some unhelpful investment-nagvice and reading non-tips while you're at it

[Wraith]

I caught the pocket size thing a bit late, and you probably missed my edit, so:

edit: Right, it sounds like that's still too large.

Maybe paper notebooks, and then scan them in at the end of the day?

LiveScribe sounds cool, and I've heard a lot about it, but I've never met anybody who's actually used it.

likely missed edit: My doctor uses audio notes. Possibility?

[GGT]

Hey why don't you give me some unhelpful investment-nagvice and reading non-tips while you're at it

Wraith gave an option his doctor uses, but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for. I could be wrong, but I think you're trying to combine technology with academics, and hope that makes you a better physician. That might get you kudos from your academic mentors...but not necessarily from your patients.

If you want to please the academic medical community, or the insurance industry..... there are plenty of apps for that. If you want to be a "good doctor".....spend less time on apps and more time on listening to your patients.

[Loki]

Minx, I'm not really in tune with high technology. I would just recommend jotting things down on a notepad, and then typing it into a Word file whenever you have the time. Date your notes, and try to use the same key words, so you could do a simple search for them if the need arises.

[GGT]

I don't recall seeing Aimless ask for ways to please his patients. Why do you keep on jumping into threads just to put down the thread-starters? If you don't have anything relevant to contribute, don't post in that thread. It really is that simple.

Minx, I'm not really in tune with high technology. I would just recommend jotting things down on a notepad, and then typing it into a Word file whenever you have the time. Date your notes, and try to use the same key words, so you could do a simple search for them if the need arises.

Well excuuuse me for answering from my nursing degree perspective. You're not just out of tune with "high technology", you can't even understand what medical professionals ask, or why. minx wasn't trying to make his life simpler, or easier. He was trying to be a better physician...which means "pleasing his patients".

[Spenni]

Wraith gave an option his doctor uses, but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for. I could be wrong, but I think you're trying to combine technology with academics, and hope that makes you a better physician. That might get you kudos from your academic mentors...but not necessarily from your patients.

If you want to please the academic medical community, or the insurance industry..... there are plenty of apps for that. If you want to be a "good doctor".....spend less time on apps and more time on listening to your patients.

Or he just wants to organize his notes better like he said...

[Aimless]

Sigh. Just a giant megasigh. GGT maybe you should follow your own advice and just accept that all I'm asking for is a way to take and organize many disorganized notes in a fashion that works with my limitations and preferences and quirks. What you see as some sort of arcane black tech-magic perversion of academics and clinical practice is in fact nothing more than answer to the problem of having many disorganized pieces of paper that drown my shit or get misplaced with dire and exhausting consequences. There's not a doctor or literate human alive that doesn't take notes, and some of us have greater difficulties with keeping those notes organized than do others.

Wraith, audio notes is something I've tried a few times for things of the "remember to look this up" or "this idea may need exploring" variety but I've never been able to make it stick. Using that approach with patients would, I think, make them uncomfortable, because no-one does it here, because of legal and psychological issues with recording on a personal device and because it gets in the way of my patter it is also slower and constitutes an extra step. Under ideal circumstances i dictate my notes on patients immediately and this would mostly serve as a way to record and retrieve information of the "remember to do some more digging on this or write this to certify blah blah once blah blah is ready". Other uses are to record interesting cases for future reference and being able to answer important questions after the fact esp when the official notes aren't handy. That being said, sometimes circumstances aren't ideal and this would be a partial solution for that as well (eg. if i did myself having to dictate a note on a patient after seeing ten other patients).

Overall, with this sort of information I've found that I benefit from writing it down and doing so without delay. The same goes for many other kinds of important information, eg. tips, new discoveries, important ideas and observations, funnies, etc. There are some things that i simply want and need to jot down quickly and then revisit at a later date in a structured and systematic fashion. Some people also brainstorm or keep journals, a high tech method that was developed only a few thousand years ago, but I am too conservative and proud of my craft for such silliness

EDIT: puzzling or inexplicable typos are due to posting from cellphone.

[Aimless]

I absolutely have to start dating my notes. It's a small but meaningful change that would make them a lot easier to overview. Fortunately, Evernote has helped me with that when u haven't been able to do it myself </cyborg>

[Aimless]

Well excuuuse me for answering from my nursing degree perspective. You're not just out of tune with "high technology", you can't even understand what medical professionals ask, or why. minx wasn't trying to make his life simpler, or easier. He was trying to be a better physician...which means "pleasing his patients".

Funny thing is, nurses here are among the best and most obsessive note-takers I know, and now many of them walk around with iPad-minis hooked up to a specially adapted EHR-system

[GGT]

No offense intended, but the same "complaints" you make as a physician could be applied to elementary teachers or municipal police forces.

"Organizing daily notes" has multiple functions, including (but not limited to) individual patient care. I like to think that doctors and nurses follow a higher degree of ethics....but when push comes to shove, that ideology is easily burst.

[Aimless]

No offense but that post doesn't make sense, neither on its own nor in the context of the present discussion. Maybe you should rewrite it after considering carefully what it is you're trying to say and why it isn't coming across clearly. I have an idea of why it is you're missing the mark both here and in other similar discussions but I'll postpone that analysis till tomorrow because it's 2AM and my brain can't take any more GGT.

[GGT]

No offense but that post doesn't make sense, neither on its own nor in the context of the present discussion. Maybe you should rewrite it after considering carefully what it is you're trying to say and why it isn't coming across clearly. I have an idea of why it is you're missing the mark both here and in other similar discussions but I'll postpone that analysis till tomorrow because it's 2AM and my brain can't take any more GGT.

Maybe you should re-read it, after getting a full night's sleep.

[Loki]

Do you give non-stop unsolicited advice in your normal life, too? Or is it a gift reserved for people on this site?

[GGT]

Do you give non-stop unsolicited advice in your normal life, too? Or is it a gift reserved for people on this site?

Fuck you, Loki.

[Loki]

That pretty much describes half of your posts on this site in the last month.

[GGT]

That pretty much describes half of your posts on this site in the last month.

Lucky for me that I'm just posting on a forum, while you strive to be the next international Kissinger diplomat, huh.

[Flixy]

Maybe you should re-read it, after getting a full night's sleep.

It certainly makes no sense whatsoever to me, so I doubt a nights sleep would help.

[GGT]

It certainly makes no sense whatsoever to me, so I doubt a nights sleep would help.

Point taken. See how that works?

I find minx's thread an example of disparities between European and American healthcare, with providers caught in the middle. "Most" physicians wouldn't ask this question on a forum, let alone a forum that sprouted from a game forum....

but minx has bigger and better ideas, that's what makes him special. He dares to ask Americans how they "organize" information, and enlists non-medical professional opinions in the process.

That's partly why I'd love to have minx as my doctor, and why anyone who has minx as their primary physician is quite fortunate.

[Aimless]

GGT,let me explain why what you're doing here and elsewhere is problematic both because it's wrong and because it's incorrect.

What you're doing is wrong because you're forcibly labelling people and then trying to make them conform, against their wishes, to what is essentially a one-dimensional caricature of who they are. In my case, the fact that you've chosen to label me as DOCTOR is no comfort. It is no less problematic than to label a person DIABETIC or BLACK or WOMAN or JEW and then have your every interaction with that person be predicated on that single label you've foisted onto them without their consent or their input.

That approach is problematic even when you use labels that aren't in themselves derogatory (eg. N*IGGER) because what you do serves to diminish people, to reduce them to a single label that disregards their personhood and individuality. It is offensive in and of itself, because it implies that a person is nothing more than the label you've attached to them. Because you insist on doing this in a disruptive way and without regard for objections, it is also discourteous. It's as if I'd begin every conversation with you by saying, "GGT, as an old woman you no doubt agree that..." And when you say, "Hold on, I'm also a nurse," I'd just dismissively say that you haven't been a nurse for a hundred years and carry on as if you agreed. Rude. I do it too, on occasion, mostly when I'm being a dick, but at some point even I have to stop myself and remember that I'm talking to people.

As if rudeness weren't enough, your approach to people here also leads you to make incorrect inferences about what they're saying and what they want, making it incredibly difficult for you to help anyone. The day you find yourself having to help a black diabetic divorced jewess with two kids and a faltering small business, without listening to her, you'll be in trouble, and so will she.

Let me illustrate graphically what it is you're doing.


This is a pot containing all the observations you've made about me over the past few years:



And this is what you've done with those observations:



Amazing! It's all on a single line and everything is connected!

But I'd like to assert that I have at least two dimensions:



And though your first impulse now is to do this...



... I'd like to assert that the true picture is more like this:



Now that's a pretty picture, but it's an utter mess so how can it be helpful in any way? How does it help you figure out in advance what the questions are and what their answers are?

It doesn't. It just helps you remember that I'm a person, just like you, and like every other person on earth I'm just complex enough that you can't figure out everything there is to figure out about me in every conceivable situation based on a single piece of information eg. about my profession. It's helpful to remember that taking your approach is going to cause you to make incorrect inferences and lead you astray, to everyone's detriment and displeasure. If you want to figure out what the questions and and what their answers may be, it may be more fruitful for you to just ask me and to listen with an open mind.

Getting down to specifics, even if you can't see me as a colourful and complex butterfly-creature, you have to understand that your conception of my needs, based on your single-label characterization, is still hopelessly flawed.

I am a doctor, yes, but there are 24 hours in a day and I don't spend every single one of those hours in front of a patient. I spend some time with my nurses, physiotherapists etc. I spend a lot of time in front of a computer looking up information and documenting my work. I spend some time filling out forms in sufficient detail as to enable my patients to collect their disability pay. I spend some time with my senior colleagues learning from them. I spend time on consulting other doctors and presenting cases for their consideration. I spend some time on teaching med-students or on participating in educational activities with other doctors. I look up useful articles. At some point I come home to the apartment I share with my wife. I look up tons of pages about food and cooking and come up with ideas to try out. We sit in front of the computer and look at interesting ideas for furniture etc that we'd like to revisit. We then look at reviews of restaurants and the like for a trip we're going on. Later still, I browse and post on forums. Not just this forum, but several others, containing people from many different countries. While discussing, I read about the topics being discussed and find interesting ideas. Sometimes I end up reading about something else entirely and decide that I'd like to post something about that on a forum or blog, eg. to pose a question or to offer a viewpoint or maybe just to share. Suddenly I get a flash of inspiration for a fantasy story because I still sometimes dream of writing fantasy. I go to bed and, looking at my peacefully sleeping wife, snippets of unformed poetry appear inside my head that I'd like to make something out of at a later date. I read a book and over the course of several interesting chapters I come across all sorts of really interesting information or thoughts or formulations that I'd like to remember. Tired, I begin to drift off to Neverland, and, just as I'm about to do so, I come up with an incredible idea for an invention that will be the most successful ever on Kickstarter so I jot it down for further consideration when I'm not stupid.

Even if you know and acknowledge only one thing about me--that I'm a doctor--and only one thing about the role of "doctor"--that it's a profession--and only one thing about the world--that there are usually more hours in a day than there are in a workday--you should be able to understand that you're not seeing the whole picture. I might memorize everything I ever need to know about my patients and still have a need for notes and organization.

More importantly, you should be able to understand that the approach you're taking here runs counter to things you no doubt really believe. I presume you sometimes believe in the concept "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts", so why do you insist on diminishing the whole to something less than its parts? I presume you believe in seeing the whole patient, so why do you take an approach that is equivalent to seeing only a diagnosis? You believe in listening to patients, so why do you endorse an approach that justifies condescendingly dismissing what they're saying about their problems and their wishes? True, you have to read between the lines, listen to the unspoken things, see the context etc. but you also have to listen to what a person is actually saying and consider the possibility that he's saying exactly what he wants, and that what he wants may in fact to a great extent be what he needs in this situation. You can't just toss that aside.

This has been a very long post, about matters wholly unrelated to the subject of taking and organizing notes, that was provoked by your unconscionable terrorist activities. I hope that we can make some headway towards peace and that you at least take some of the above to heart. Please just go outside and hang out with real people so that you remember how to treat real people. because, honest to God, I think you're slipping. Either that or you're just being a dick here on this forum, which, granted, is a fine and well-established tradition that even I appreciate, but in that case at least be honest about it peace

[Loki]

[Aimless]

On another note, I have an invention to patent