Well, Rolling Stone Shit the Bed

[EyeKhan]

Not very responsible to run a story with such serious accusations and not even bother to consult the accused or do some pretty basic fact checking, like whether or not the fraternity even had pledges during the fall semester. Sheesh. Come on.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/..._campaign=news


Rolling Stone' Says Trust In Gang-Rape Accuser Was 'Misplaced'




Rolling Stone magazine says "there now appear to be discrepancies" in its story about a University of Virginia student who said she was gang-raped during a fraternity party in 2012, adding it had "come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced."


The story identifies the woman who said she was raped only as "Jackie," and the magazine honored her request not to contact any of the men she said took part in the attack.


"In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie's account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced," Managing Editor Will Dana said in a statement about the story by Sabrina Rubin Erdely. "We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story."


Dana's note has been appended to the original article on the magazine's website.


Erdely's Nov. 19 article centered on the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity and Jackie's alleged rape when she was a college freshman. As we previously reported:


"In the article, a student named Jackie describes how her initial excitement of being invited to a party at the fraternity was suddenly replaced by fear and violence, as a group of men trapped her in a room and attacked her.


"The article says Jackie was pressured by peers to keep her story quiet, and that administrators who knew about Jackie's story took no action — even after she reported allegations from two other girls who said they had been assaulted in a similar way at the same fraternity."




The article and the ensuing outrage prompted University of Virginia President Teresa A. Sullivan to suspend all of the school's fraternities until Jan. 9. The university also apologized to the student who made the allegations.
Phi Kappa Psi was planning to release a statement later today rebutting the claims in the article.


The Rolling Stone article prompted outrage at Phi Kappa Psi and other fraternities, but it also drew skepticism from several people who questioned the facts in the story. The Washington Post reported today that several of Jackie's close friends had come to doubt her account. Jackie told the newspaper that she was standing by her version of the events.


"I never asked for this" attention, she told the Post. "What bothers me is that so many people act like it didn't happen. It's my life. I have had to live with the fact that it happened every day for the last two years."

[Lewkowski]

People who cry rape when it didn't happen should be thrown in prison.

[Loki]

Rolling Stone not checking out the validity of their sources. First time that's ever happened.

[EyeKhan]

Rolling Stone not checking out the validity of their sources. First time that's ever happened.

Is it common?

[Ominous Gamer]

Phi Kappa Psi was planning to release a statement later today rebutting the claims in the article.

[Loki]

Their problem is generally limited to extremely one-sided analysis and lying by omission. I imagine both are caused by wanting to make huge, sensationalist claims without doing the work to verify them.

[Ominous Gamer]

http://static.digg.com/images/ab660eb182bd4942b33768612b674ccd_511db9361d294fe8a 199421ad18c4708_1_original.png

I love how this story is bringing out the worst in reporting, no way Gawker wasn't going to jump on this

http://gawker.com/that-uva-frat-lett...res-1667421511

With Rolling Stone's story on gang rape at the University of Virginia spinning down the crapper, the gentlebros of Phi Kappa Psi are striking back—with a stupid, carefully worded press release. It basically means nothing.

I was in a fraternity during college. I say that here for two reasons: so you know I was sweet as hell back then, and so you trust me when I tell you this letter is basically meaningless, penned by a group of scared kids in crisis mode, who require regular meetings to keep their floors mopped of beer. It's supposed to "refute" claims of sexual assault against the group, but what does it really refute?

"We have no knowledge of these alleged acts being committed at our house or by our members" doesn't refute said acts.

"The chapter did not have a date function or a social event during the weekend of September 28th, 2012" doesn't refute said acts—that only means there was no formally organized party at Phi Psi that night. It doesn't mean people weren't socializing there. Maybe it was a handful of people, maybe it was a huge rager, but it's a given that someone is drinking at every college frat in the United States at any given moment.

"Our chapter's pledging and initiation periods, as required by the University and Inter-Fraternity Council, take place solely in the spring semester and not in the fall semester" doesn't refute said acts, because frat rushing is lawless. This is like a foreign regime denying the use of chemical weapons because it's against international law—who cares, man! Not Phi Psi, or any other fraternity, which are constantly breaking the fake rules imposed upon them by fake institutions like "Inter-Fraternity Councils."

"No ritualized sexual assault is part of our pledging or initiation process" doesn't refute said acts, but at least it's very minimally reassuring.

The only counter-claim that doesn't instantly fold in on itself is that "the 2012 roster of the Aquatic and Fitness Center does not list a Phi Kappa Psi as a lifeguard," as originally claimed by the alleged rape victim. But if the only hole in her story is that she said some guy was a part-time lifeguard but that guy wasn't a part-time lifeguard, then this apologia is truly as lame as it looks.

[GGT]

As if Fox News, the NYT, or major news affiliates never "shit the bed" with bad journalism.

The bigger story is how prevalent sexual abuse....and rape.....is in US culture. Especially on college campuses. And how/why journalists have been reluctant reporters.

[Wraith]

This is not to say that it does not matter whether or not Jackie’s story is accurate. There is now a police investigation into the incident. Brothers of Phi Kappa Psi were moved out of their house after students threw bricks through the windows. Dean Nicole Eramo has received death threats. And it is becoming increasingly clear that the story that blew the lid off campus sexual assault has some major, major holes.

Ultimately, though, from where I sit in Charlottesville, to let fact checking define the narrative would be a huge mistake. “These events undoubtedly do occur here,” first-year Maddie Rita told me. “And while this report has clearly had factual flaws as well as rhetorical missteps, there are plenty of other fully corroborated accounts not only at this university, but at every university around the country.”

Source

[Khendraja'aro]

What kind of justification is this? "Because rape is occuring everywhere, let's just forgot about nuanced and even-handed reporting, throw 'in dubio pro rheo' out of the window and start a witch hunt anyway!"?

[Flixy]

What kind of justification is this? "Because rape is occuring everywhere, let's just forgot about nuanced and even-handed reporting, throw 'in dubio pro rheo' out of the window and start a witch hunt anyway!"?

Don't forget, be sure to name names as well! Why cover rape occurring everywhere if you can just make up a convenient example and cover that instead? It's not like false rape accusations ever hurt anybody...

[Lewkowski]

Buahhahahaha you can't make this shit up.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opini...203-story.html


In his recent column questioning allegations of brutal rape at a University of Virginia fraternity, Jonah Goldberg made clear -- though he didn't say explicitly -- that he has never been in a fraternity. In fact, some quick research shows that his alma mater has not had any Greek presence on its campus for decades.

So it's interesting to me, a recent college grad and alumna of a co-ed fraternity, that Goldberg feels he has such authority to discuss the veracity of Rolling Stone's widely read account of a female student who tells of her systematic and brutal gang rape by seven men at the university's Phi Kappa Psi chapter.

Goldberg raises questions about the rape survivor's account that range from offhand (how did she know there were seven if the room was pitch black?) to naive: "The nicknames she hears -- 'Armpit' and 'Blanket' -- sound bizarre, even by fraternity standards.”

Goldberg's dumbfoundedness is understandable. I thought it was pretty strange when I was given the pledge name "Sebastian" and placed on the mustache branch of the Galilean family in my fraternity. Other members of my organization had names like "Glenn Cocoa" and "Huff." I can see why someone who knows nothing about the naming ceremonies of Greek organizations would find these whimsical handles odd.

Goldberg further shows his lack of familiarity with the problem of college rape when he calls the victim's friends the "worst ... imaginable" for not immediately reporting her brutal assault. Here, Goldberg fails to appreciate the very real fear of being chastised for reporting a rape. I'm not saying that the friends were right in not reporting it, and I'm not making a judgment on whether or not the assault happened. But it's clear that Goldberg's cultural distance from modern campus life and disregard of the social consequences of reporting an assault render him inadequate to judge the veracity of a rape allegation.

Sadly, Goldberg's piece is the type of ill-informed berating that makes victims of sexual assault afraid to come forward in the first place.

He evidently finds it hard to believe that seven young men not under the influence of drugs or alcohol would plan to rape a young woman and actually carry out such a heinous act. I have spent countless nights in deep conversation with friends who have been raped and have interviewed victims of sexual assault; I can assure Goldberg that people don't have to be drunk to be rapists.

Remarkably, Goldberg refers to the "rape epidemic" -- yes, in scare quotes -- and criticizes the media for including this story in a broader discussion of what he thinks are questionable sexual assault statistics. Goldberg's skepticism won't prevent any campus rapes; what it risks doing, however, is to further discourage people from coming forward about their sexual assault.

The column ends with a call to the media to independently corroborate the Rolling Stone story. Goldberg is a columnist for a major newspaper and a nationally prominent commentator; he can sate his journalistic curiosity himself.

BY: DIANA CRANDALL - Liberal twit.

[Hazir]

Well, I am certainly of the opinion that in the USA false rape claims are rapidly getting a bigger problem than actual rapes.

[Steely Glint]

Based on what evidence?

[EyeKhan]

The worst thing that Rolling Stone did with their sloppy journalism was stir up waters that were already muddy as hell. On the one hand the accused frat house was vandalized and the entire campus greek system suspended, but on the other the messed up facts only prove the girl mis-remembered, not that she didn't get assaulted. Memory is not reliable, hence the need for investigation and fact checking. In the past the benefit of the doubt has tended to be against rape accusers and the meaningful investigation of reported assaults and now Rolling Stone has injected new life into that backward thinking. To deal with sexual assault fairly, reported assaults should always be investigated thoroughly and without exposing accusers and the accused to public condemnation outside the merits of the investigation. A justice system that rolls its eyes whenever a woman claims to be raped is not just, nor is it just when an accused rapist has his career or social status destroyed before guilt is reasonably determined. What a mess.

[wiggin]

Well, I am certainly of the opinion that in the USA false rape claims are rapidly getting a bigger problem than actual rapes.

I cannot disagree in stronger terms. Rape is an incredibly large and persistent problem in the US (and pretty much everywhere else), affecting a truly horrifying proportion of women. False rape accusations, while extremely troubling, are at best a marginal problem, irrespective of the amount of press they get. I would challenge you to provide any evidence whatsoever that the magnitude of the second problem even approaches the magnitude of the first one.

Don't get me wrong - I am sick and tired of the sanctimonious bullshit being put out by the 'rape culture' crowd. They see everything in black and white, blame all of the world's ills on men, have overly broad definitions (lumping in drunken hookups and unwanted sexual contact - both problematic, of course - with rape), and are far too eager to ignore the rights of the accused. I have pretty much stopped reading my Facebook feed because of the number of people who lose all level of critical thinking around this issue.

And yet, there are some good and important points they make. Rape is a problem, whether on or off campus (though not especially on campus; statistics, poor as they are, do not indicate an increase on college campuses compared to the general population). Victims do face shaming, opprobrium, institutional pressure, poor law enforcement responses, etc. There is an almost immediate pall of doubt cast over the victim's story that would not apply in the case of a non-sexual violent assault like a mugging. This is a problem, and we need to address it.

I am deeply concerned by the direction of advocacy about rape issues, mostly because it ignores issues of due process - for example, pushing for administrative punishment by universities is almost certainly an awful idea, just as absurdly strict definitions of consent. Panels of professors and administrators should not be determining guilt or innocence based on flimsy evidence and poorly designed proceedings. Such decisions should be left in the hands of law enforcement - though law enforcement definitely needs an overhaul in this department. However, I do think that a broader acceptance of the magnitude of the problem by institutions and individuals - and efforts to prevent rapes in the future - is certainly warranted. This includes everything from curtailing substance abuse by both victims and perpetrators, improving education on these issues, and changing the culture on reporting in order to provide assistance for victims and help pinpoint repeat offenders.

Rape is a complex problem, and addressing it requires a sustained effort on a number of fronts. We shouldn't dismiss it just because some advocates are increasingly shrill and uncompromising in tone and because of some false accusations.

[Steely Glint]

They see everything in black and white

I think they act in this way because they have the belief that if they give an inch on anything to do with rape it will somehow be used to roll back victims rights, justification for victim blaming, excuse rapists, etc. And I'm not sure I can convince myself that they're wrong about that. And while I do think 'rape culture' is an unhelpful term because it makes people defensive and therefore disinclined to listen, the concept it describes is valid.

I am deeply concerned by the direction of advocacy about rape issues

Very much agreed. People really shouldn't be making their minds up about these issues outside of a court of law. People should not be calling the victim a liar, people should not be assuming the accused are guilty. People should not be using this case or any other individual case as a proxy for the wider debate, such as it is, about rape and the responses to it and whether or not false accusations are a thing. None of us were there, and therefore none of us know what happened. Leave it for the courts to figure out what happened.

[Hazir]

Wiggin, I didn't say rape was some innocent occurrence in someone's life.

However, we have reached the point in the USA where the 'perp' is guilty the moment 'he' is accused. Which is made worse by the fact that local mores don't allow for any anonymity for whoever is accused.

Also, not only women are raped, but so far the first false rape accusation by a man I still have to see. There is no reason to assume that every woman who cries woolf is going through some horrible process before she can make the accusation and thus must be given the benefit of the doubt that the accused thus is denied.

Yet, what we see is a situation that holding any doubt about any accusation of rape means that you are condoning rape.

Mind you, the reason why I would say the above is not related to the issue of rape but to the fact that over a decade 80% of what I do is figure out whether people are telling the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth or a version that's intlended to manipulate me into a decision of their liking. That has taught me that there are many people who have a very vivid imagination and there are even more who can turn on the water works like any of of switches on the light.

[wiggin]

Hazir, none of that suggests that false rape accusations are anywhere near as big of a problem as actual rape. I don't deny it's a problem, and that we need to be very careful to protect the rights of both victims and the accused (something we currently fail to do, on both counts). But a bigger problem? Please.

[Lewkowski]

The worst thing that Rolling Stone did with their sloppy journalism was stir up waters that were already muddy as hell. On the one hand the accused frat house was vandalized and the entire campus greek system suspended, but on the other the messed up facts only prove the girl mis-remembered, not that she didn't get assaulted. Memory is not reliable, hence the need for investigation and fact checking. In the past the benefit of the doubt has tended to be against rape accusers and the meaningful investigation of reported assaults and now Rolling Stone has injected new life into that backward thinking. To deal with sexual assault fairly, reported assaults should always be investigated thoroughly and without exposing accusers and the accused to public condemnation outside the merits of the investigation. A justice system that rolls its eyes whenever a woman claims to be raped is not just, nor is it just when an accused rapist has his career or social status destroyed before guilt is reasonably determined. What a mess.

In general the burden of proof for a crime must be on the accuser. Not to say that police shouldn't investigate thoroughly and put down actual rapists hard but if there is a 50/50 chance someone is guilty of rape according to the reasonable doubt standard the accused rapist wouldn't be found guilty.

Right now there are plenty of examples of people whose lives have been ruined by false rape accusations. I haven't found any incidents of people crying rape where there was none thrown in jail for their vicious lies.

[Lewkowski]

Very much agreed. People really shouldn't be making their minds up about these issues outside of a court of law. People should not be calling the victim a liar, people should not be assuming the accused are guilty. People should not be using this case or any other individual case as a proxy for the wider debate, such as it is, about rape and the responses to it and whether or not false accusations are a thing. None of us were there, and therefore none of us know what happened. Leave it for the courts to figure out what happened.

Good luck with that. If its in the news people will have a viewpoint and people like to express their opinions. I don't *necessarily* disagree with what *should* happen only that it will never work that way once the story hits the news.

[GGT]

This would not be a "journalism" problem....if colleges didn't have such crappy policies for reporting sexual assaults outside their campus culture. The victim is often discouraged from reporting assaults to "the real police", and led to believe that campus security, or intercollegiate review boards will take care of things.

Victim shaming is used like a PR move, to protect the institution over the individual. Same thing goes for professional athletes. Image trumps everything, and it's no surprise that savvy legal teams go to the highest bidder.

[Aimless]

In general the burden of proof for a crime must be on the accuser. Not to say that police shouldn't investigate thoroughly and put down actual rapists hard but if there is a 50/50 chance someone is guilty of rape according to the reasonable doubt standard the accused rapist wouldn't be found guilty.

Right now there are plenty of examples of people whose lives have been ruined by false rape accusations. I haven't found any incidents of people crying rape where there was none thrown in jail for their vicious lies.

Nonsense, people who are suspected of rape should be shot on sight by police officers if there's a 50% chance they did it.

[Lewkowski]

This would not be a "journalism" problem....if colleges didn't have such crappy policies for reporting sexual assaults outside their campus culture. The victim is often discouraged from reporting assaults to "the real police", and led to believe that campus security, or intercollegiate review boards will take care of things.

Victim shaming is used like a PR move, to protect the institution over the individual. Same thing goes for professional athletes. Image trumps everything, and it's no surprise that savvy legal teams go to the highest bidder.

So I'll agree with this much at least - going to campus police instead of actual police should never be encouraged.

[Dreadnaught]

Even more reporting is making this girl sound like a deeply troubled compulsive liar. Using different names of the main perpetrator/pledge "fixer" with different people, showing her friends photos of guys she claims are asking her out who never attended the university.

What a mess. And I share the concern with the direction of the anti-rape movement. The lessons I'm seeing people in "the movement" take away from this do not at all question the wisdom of pushing universities to make it exceedingly easy kick out people accused of misconduct.

[Loki]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...es-rape-story/ As I mentioned before, no quality control at all at Rolling Stone. They're far too desperate to print sensationalist stories.

An unrelated piece, but about the same quality of Rolling Stone reporting: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...013-interview/

[EyeKhan]

if there is a 50/50 chance someone is guilty of rape according to the reasonable doubt standard the accused rapist wouldn't be found guilty.

You say 50/50 as in her word against his? Like in the case of "I was passed-out-drunk and he had his way with me" vs "we were drunk and we hooked up?" Those can be the muddiest of the waters for sure.

[Loki]

The criminal standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, which is far higher than 50/50.

[Enoch the Red]

In general the burden of proof for a crime must be on the accuser. Not to say that police shouldn't investigate thoroughly and put down actual rapists hard but if there is a 50/50 chance someone is guilty of rape according to the reasonable doubt standard the accused rapist wouldn't be found guilty.

Right now there are plenty of examples of people whose lives have been ruined by false rape accusations. I haven't found any incidents of people crying rape where there was none thrown in jail for their vicious lies.

Just so we are clear, you believe that if a person cries rape they should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives because of the damage that would do to the lives of the people they accused, but you see no problem with someone killing another person who was not actively posing a threat to them because it was conceivable they could have? Using your logic I would think that if a woman even suspected a man was thinking about raping her she would be within her rights to not only cry rape, but kill him.

[Veldan Rath]

Tee hee you said logic in reference to Lewk Troll.