The Government Debt Train Nudges Closer To Collision

[Being]

So basically a solution that is based on a broken system is doomed to fail forever?

Not according to me.

It is also a foot in the door to centralized insurance regulation which, besides being beneficial to consumers, paves the way for true interstate competition. Do you think any reform will EVER be built completely outside of the present system?

[Aimless]

If they're still in academia, it's still academic. If they're new to the work force, they are probably like all new workers and tax averse....wanting to hold onto their cash, trying to "get ahead". Maybe they haven't experienced our health system first-hand yet, other than to walk into their university clinic with a rash or sore throat. Perhaps they haven't had children yet, or taken care of elderly parents, or buried them yet, or even been critically ill themselves. So it's a theoretical problem, not a real one.

It could be because they're aiming to make it big in fields where you don't really need to bring anything new to the table.

[Being]

It could be because they're aiming to make it big in fields where you don't really need to bring anything new to the table.

It's probably more to do with being young and unaffected by the need that exists.

[Aimless]

It's probably because Loki is jealous.

[GGT]

No, because Americans are Exceptional. Didn't you get the memo?

[Being]

It's probably because Loki is jealous.

You lost me.

[Being]

No, because Americans are Exceptional. Didn't you get the memo?

We are exceptional. We are One Nation Under God.

[GGT]

<Loki made a lame comment earlier about people being jealous of high income earners>

Is something wacky going on? The order of posts changed after I refreshed.

[Being]

<Loki made a lame comment earlier about people being jealous of high income earners>

Is something wacky going on? The order of posts changed after I refreshed.

In that case I will reiterate, Americans are Exceptional, we are One Nation Under God. How many other nations claim that?

[Hazir]

It means that despite your protestations, you have a xenophobic disregard for anything that's not European.

Oh, I see, so now it's European xenophobia to think that a system that actually wastes half of the 2 trillion that goes into it on useless procedures and excessive overhead is not something you want to stick with. Especially if you consider that that particular system leaves millions of people out in the cold. If that's European xenophobia, then I am proud to be a European xenophobe.

[EyeKhan]

So basically a solution that is based on a broken system is doomed to fail forever?

No, its a baby step toward fixing this gigantic mess. You have to start somewhere and so long as there's improvement along the way, then lets have at it. 'Bout damn time!

It's probably because Loki is jealous.

On the one hand, and this is conjecture, I like to think if I made that comment I would have at least come back and clarified what I meant or at least said 'fine, obvioulsly that's not what's going on here, lets move along.' On the other hand, the fact that this was Loki and he's not been going tit for tat defending that silly post says a lot by itself. In any case, I'm not sure it makes sense to keep whacking him with that chicken. It could be the seed of the type of spiral that killed Tear. You know?

No, because Americans are Exceptional. Didn't you get the memo?

We are exceptional. Who else walked on the Moon? Who else nuked an enemy in anger? Twice? Who else continues to insist against all logic and truth that we just can't afford to provide health care to every one of our citizens? Huh? Nobody. That's frackin' right. Anyway, this really is a nice place to live. Or at least where I live is a nice place to live. Not sure about you or Ogre.

[GGT]

I bitch because I care about our country. We can do better.

[EyeKhan]

I bitch because I care about our country. We can do better.

Understatement of the decade. Or of the last quarter century maybe. Half century? When's the last time our nation lived up to its potential instead of whining and crying about "we can't afford it..." "yer takin' away that rich guy's muuneeey and wasting it on helllping people...." "we don't want a nannnny state, we want a cruel, heartless, uneducated, do-nothing, slack-jawed, lowest denominator, just can't do it, race to the bottom, fuck-off-world state...." That's conservative exceptionalism.

[GGT]

The last time we lived up to our potential and shared what seemed like united goals? hmm, maybe WWII. Not sure. There was a little burst of 'national pride' after 9/11, but it didn't last very long.

[littlelolligagged]

The last time we lived up to our potential and shared what seemed like united goals? hmm, maybe WWII. Not sure. There was a little burst of 'national pride' after 9/11, but it didn't last very long.

Correction. People pretended to have national pride and being united in their concern and terror.

Meanwhile, people with common sense assumed it was inevitable and went on with their lives without pretending like the world came to an end.

[Loki]

On the one hand, and this is conjecture, I like to think if I made that comment I would have at least come back and clarified what I meant or at least said 'fine, obvioulsly that's not what's going on here, lets move along.' On the other hand, the fact that this was Loki and he's not been going tit for tat defending that silly post says a lot by itself. In any case, I'm not sure it makes sense to keep whacking him with that chicken. It could be the seed of the type of spiral that killed Tear. You know?

It might mean that Loki doesn't have the time to reply to inane semi-socialist drivel.

[EyeKhan]

The last time we lived up to our potential and shared what seemed like united goals? hmm, maybe WWII. Not sure. There was a little burst of 'national pride' after 9/11, but it didn't last very long.

Certainly NOT with 9/11. Our response as a nation was a gigantic failure of common sense and of the principles this nation was founded on.

I'd say going to the Moon was living up to our potential, even if it was a military program in disguise. The EPA and cleaning up the environment in the '70s was living up to our potential too. And that was despite disco.

Correction. People pretended to have national pride and being united in their concern and terror.

Meanwhile, people with common sense assumed it was inevitable and went on with their lives without pretending like the world came to an end.

Its not inevitable. That attack did not have to be successful. We got caught with our pants down - too much loosey goosey freedom at the air port, not enough imagination and dilligence in law enforcement.

It might mean that Loki doesn't have the time to reply to inane semi-socialist drivel.

Hey, I was half defending ya man. And that's despite my grudge.

[Aimless]

It might mean that Loki doesn't have the time to reply to inane semi-socialist drivel.

Pff nonsense, I've SEEN what you've been doing here on the forum for the past week. You obviously have both the time and the inclination to spout drivel at the least. In my professional opinion, it's probably because you're jealous

[Loki]

Hey, I was half defending ya man. And that's despite my grudge.

Just for that, no more apologies for your anti-Semitism from me.

[LittleFuzzy]

So basically a solution that is based on a broken system is doomed to fail forever?

No, of course not. But as Dread keeps repeating, "we can't afford this." If we were dealing with something smaller, say the National Parks Service, then this sort of political activity *just add some new parks, inject additional funding, and wait for something else to change it incrementally and actually fix things* wouldn't be such a problem.

[LittleFuzzy]

Oh, I see, so now it's European xenophobia to think that a system that actually wastes half of the 2 trillion that goes into it on useless procedures and excessive overhead is not something you want to stick with. Especially if you consider that that particular system leaves millions of people out in the cold. If that's European xenophobia, then I am proud to be a European xenophobe.

So what this is really about is your fundamental loathing for religious symbology?

[EyeKhan]

Just for that, no more apologies for your anti-Semitism from me.

Well, with apologies like that, I won't be set back much. You're just lucky my grudges don't really mean anything. (Do you realize how difficult it is to resist making a punch-you-in-the-face remark? I'm --- not --- that --- strong... )

[Hazir]

So what this is really about is your fundamental loathing for religious symbology?

You're trying out newly legal substances? I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Aimless]

No, of course not. But as Dread keeps repeating, "we can't afford this." If we were dealing with something smaller, say the National Parks Service, then this sort of political activity *just add some new parks, inject additional funding, and wait for something else to change it incrementally and actually fix things* wouldn't be such a problem.

If you can't afford it now then you probably haven't been able to afford it for several years. Why is it suddenly more unacceptable now?

[LittleFuzzy]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Sure you do. I'm just going a bit farther afield in playing your game than you generally do.

If you can't afford it now then you probably haven't been able to afford it for several years. Why is it suddenly more unacceptable now?

It's not. But it's actually happening now, so it has more immediacy.

[Dreadnaught]

When people say that the reason we are running high deficits and "if we want it to work, it will work"...it becomes clear that they aren't paying attention to the details at all. They like the idea of free health care, without much of an idea of how it would play out. Or even what's in our bill. Or even the nature of our emerging debt crisis.

I mean, do folks need a pie chart or something?

[Loki]

When people say that the reason we are running high deficits and "if we want it to work, it will work"...it becomes clear that they aren't paying attention to the details at all. They like the idea of free health care, without much of an idea of how it would play out. Or even what's in our bill. Or even the nature of our emerging debt crisis.

I mean, do folks need a pie chart or something?

You beat me to it with that quote. That kind of logic is responsible for most of the problems the US has faced over the last century.

[EyeKhan]

When people say that the reason we are running high deficits and "if we want it to work, it will work"...it becomes clear that they aren't paying attention to the details at all. They like the idea of free health care, without much of an idea of how it would play out. Or even what's in our bill. Or even the nature of our emerging debt crisis.

I mean, do folks need a pie chart or something?

Nothing is free. And providing health care to everyone at a reasonable cost while preserving innovation is not impossible.

[Hazir]

When people say that the reason we are running high deficits and "if we want it to work, it will work"...it becomes clear that they aren't paying attention to the details at all. They like the idea of free health care, without much of an idea of how it would play out. Or even what's in our bill. Or even the nature of our emerging debt crisis.

I mean, do folks need a pie chart or something?

Nobody is talking about free; the change is about ending the crazy situation that people enter health care at the point where it is least effective and most expensive because they don't have the money for cheap first line health care.

[EyeKhan]

Nobody is talking about free; the change is about ending the crazy situation that people enter health care at the point where it is least effective and most expensive because they don't have the money for cheap first line health care.

That's one of the problems. There's also the problem of health insurance companies bumping people who get sick and denying treatment for 'pre-existing conditions' and charging women more in premiums because they will eventually have babies. And then there's the trillion dollar problem if inefficient administration and unnecessary 'defensive' (or pad-my-fee-for-service-pay-check) testing. And who knows how much fraud there is... lots I'm guessing, especially in Medicare. So we are to believe that none of this can be fixed and we just have to settle for the self-destructive mess we have now and as more and more people get left behind, well, they'll just die. Lunacy.