Hazir, I'd hope someone like Loki would pipe in, but since they haven't.....my limited knowledge of the parliamentary process tells me Reconciliation is a procedural option in the senate, to pass a bill at 51 votes (simple majority) instead of 60 (supermajority).
Some of this involves written set rules vs unwritten understood rules, so it's considered a political wedge tactic by some.
They way I understand it so far, its applicable here because both house and senate have already passed their versions. Now, since the Senate can't pass anything anymore, the House has to pass the Senate version, meaning the two bills are now reconciled. Then the reconciled version is put through this budget reconcilliation procedure, which has apparently been used to pass a number of important pieces of legislation in the past, I assume to avoid fillibusters too. It sounds like changes can be made in this final process too, including the crumbs Obama is throwing to conservatives, and to remove a few things the House really wants out. But they have to trust the Senate to go along aparently. So, its interesting. Better than leaving the status quo, though. And the Dems must pass something or they are dead in November. Likely will be dead anyway, but better to die doing something than hiding in a corner somewhere.Originally Posted by GGT
Hazir, I'd hope someone like Loki would pipe in, but since they haven't.....my limited knowledge of the parliamentary process tells me Reconciliation is a procedural option in the senate, to pass a bill at 51 votes (simple majority) instead of 60 (supermajority).
Some of this involves written set rules vs unwritten understood rules, so it's considered a political wedge tactic by some.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Well, I think that if they can throw off this idea that they are unable to do something even with a supermajority then maybe they'll have a fighting chance in the midterms. Right now they just look both extremist and incompetent.
Congratulations America
Now that people are getting notices their premiums are going up from 10-40%, a few things can happen.
1) People drop their coverage as too expensvie; now they're uninsured.
2) Employers can lay off some people, to afford subsidizing remaining staff. After COBRA runs out, if they don't have another job with benefits, they'll be uninsured.
3) Employers can jack up employee "contribution", reducing their take-home pay.
4) Employers can end the benefit perk, pay a little more in wages, and everyone has to find/buy their own coverage. Many will say fuck it, it's too expensive; now they're uninsured.
5) With all these uninsured people foregoing OOP care, the EDs will become crazy busy. Providers will have to cost-shift to absorb losses, charging the insured more.
6) Premiums will go up due to #5.
7) see #1, repeat
How're we doin' so far?
EDIT to add this piece called End-of-Life Warning at $618,616 Makes Me Wonder Was It Worth It
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=avRFGNF6Qw_w
Probably longer than most would read, but it should be considered. Notice the attitude toward Insurance = Care; Care = At All Costs. Fortunate for them, it meant adding time for trips to Pompei and seeing kids grow a bit older. Most Americans wouldn't have that "luxury". Buried in there is the statement his costs could have vaccinated thousands of children who have a future.....
Last edited by GGT; 03-05-2010 at 04:20 PM.
Update bump.
Several financial firms and investor advisors are putting a Buy mark on UnitedHealth, Cigna and Aetna. That's right folks, get rich by hedging against health care reform. Or if it sounds better, get rich by buying into Big Insurance, because there will be no reform.
Prudential is up for grabs, since they bought the Asian arm of AIG's life insurance.....who feels lucky?
Source: Factbox: Healthcare bill would provide immediate benefits | ReutersHealthcare bill would provide immediate benefits
WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT
*Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.
*Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
*Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
*Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
*A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.
*Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.
*A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
*A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011
*Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.
*Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.
*A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.
*Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.
*Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.
*An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012
*Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.
*An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.
*The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013
*A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.
*The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.
*The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.
*A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014
*State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.
*Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
*Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
*Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
*Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015
*Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services.
WHAT HAPPENS IN 2018
*An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.
Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.
Eh these companies will be getting a lot of new customers. Uninsured doesn't necessarily mean bad risks.
Congratulations America
That was my way of complaining that we don't have health care Reform, not even insurance Reform.
Many of the uninsured are good risks. They're young and healthy and don't see the need to pay the equivalent of a monthly house payment for coverage. With an individual mandate they will be brought into the system and help subsidize the sick people's care.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Looks like it's going to be passed today: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35961584...h_care_reform/
WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Democratic caucus in the House said on Sunday that his party had the 216 votes needed to pass President Barack Obama's historic health care bill.
I enjoy blank walls.
*Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.
<says nothing about capping premiums or annual costs>
*Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
<again, what good will it be if it's unaffordable>
*The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.
<are insurance premiums, co-pays and deductibles counted as 'medical expenses'?>
*Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
<is the tax credit considered one of the 'subsidies'?>
*Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
<is that also workers who are 400% of poverty level and getting subsidy on the exchange? see tax credit question>
*An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.
<what about high risk chronic illness that carries higher premiums?>
Even if it passes today, lots of work and tweaks are in our future. The items above have me scratching my head, asking if this really helps anyone but CPAs, accountants, and insurance companies. Can anyone else actually figure out what those items MEAN or how they'll apply to you?
I think you'll just have to start reading if you want an answer to your questionsThis kind of legislation is always extremely complicated and hard to explain.
Congratulations America
Oh, I didn't really expect an answer. I know even my CPA is all aflutter. Yes, legislation is complicated, but mostly because our legislators make it so, almost like a self-fulfulling prophecy.
Irish bookmakers InTrade have "Obamacare" rated as 92.6 (out of 100), ie gamblers apparently think there's a 92.6% chance its going through. I'd expect it to.
No, this kind of legislation is not just complicated because legislators want it that way. It is also the people who want it; you wouldn't want health care legislation that doesn't take into account that some people are chronically ill but that most people aren't.Oh, I didn't really expect an answer. I know even my CPA is all aflutter. Yes, legislation is complicated, but mostly because our legislators make it so, almost like a self-fulfulling prophecy.
Congratulations America
Health problems seen as result of lack of responsibility:
- Victims of accidents and terrorists attacks lacked responsibility. They should be more responsible and stay away from terrorists and accidents.
- Victims of diseases caused by genetic problems that come from family's past are not responsible. They should not have born under such family.
- Elders are not responsible because aging is the result of lack of responsibility as they did not stay young.
- Children are not responsible when they suffer accidents, they should not play and they should not do exercise that may expose them to accidents.
- Soldiers are not responsible because they enlisted for war that causes health problems.
Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.
Let me be the first to say, neener neener neener, Dread
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I honestly don't know what to think yet.
I enjoy blank walls.
I never said it was impossible to pass, just that it would be a fundamental, long-term mistake for the US.
Hence the neenering, obv
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Ah, gotcha.
The next bill should be to rename USA to UK Part 2! (exclamation included)
seriously though, there's a reason most of your greatest presidents in history wanted this. You may hate it now, and Obama may only get 1 term because of it, but in 10 years time he'll be remembered as a hero
How do you expect to run with the wolves at night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies?
- Omar Little
So, judgement day is upon us. Are they hauling off the old to death camps already in the US? Do doctors perform forced federally financed abortions in the streets? Are people forming orderly lines to get on waiting lists?
P.S. that final debate was a great way to get me to sleep.
Congratulations America
Welcome to socialism boys!
Mwhuhahahaha!
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
British socialism?
The House of Representatives gave final approval to a sweeping healthcare overhaul, expanding insurance coverage to nearly all Americans and handing President Barack Obama a landmark victory. The overhaul will extend health coverage to 32 million Americans, expand the government health plan for the poor, impose new taxes on the wealthy and bar insurance practices such as refusing to cover people with pre-existing medical conditions.
The fact that it is unfamiliar does not make it socialist.
Factbox: Details of final healthcare bill
Q+A: How does healthcare overhaul affect Medicare?
Last edited by ar81; 03-22-2010 at 09:23 AM.
Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.
Please don't fill their little heads with this.
This is capitalism! The insurance companies win!
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
So it's the insurance companies that will set up the new death panels ? Or will they simply reassign the old ones from their acceptance department?
Congratulations America
I think they will just reassign the old ones from their acceptance department; although firing them and hiring new people at lower wages good be beneficial, too.
For entertainment value:
Members of Georgia's Congressional delegation voted mostly along party lines late Sunday after months of debate about federal health care reform.
Rep. John Barrow (D-Savannah) and Rep. Jim Marshall (D-Macon) were among those who broke ranks and voted "no."
Here are excerpts from statements sent to 11Alive News overnight:
Jane Kidd, Chair, Democratic Party of Georgia: "Let's enjoy this victory. It is good policy that empowers all Americans, lowers our budget deficit, and more importantly- gives life and health to those who have the least among us."
U.S. Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Georgia): "This is the height of political arrogance. The reconciliation process was never intended for comprehensive policy changes, and I will work with my Republican colleagues in the Senate to fight this effort every step of the way. This has not been a thoughtful process, and it is an unfortunate way to do business."
U.S. Rep. John Lewis (D-Atlanta): "We have a moral obligation today to make health care a right, and not a privilege. There are those who have told us to start over. There are those who have told us to wait. They have told us to be patient. We cannot wait, we cannot be patient. The American people need health care, and they need it now."
U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal (R-Gainesville), who's also running for governor: "I will devote my efforts to making sure the people of my state are not subjected to the unconstitutional individual mandate, and that my state is not subject to the unconstitutional mandate to expand our Medicaid rolls."
U.S. Rep. Paul Broun (R-Athens): "I am appalled that this Congress squandered the opportunity to enact a lasting cure to our health care financing crisis. This is just one skirmish in the battle over whether we will continue down the road towards a centrally-controlled government or turn around and preserve liberty. It is never too late to do the right thing. And I can assure you I will continue to fight to preserve our nation's freedom."
U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Marietta): "This law will raise taxes on all Americans, it will kill jobs in a lagging economy, it will put mandates on Americans and on businesses, it will put government in between doctors and their patients, it will raise the premiums of people who currently have insurance."
U.S. Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Decatur): "Years from now, we will wonder what all the fuss was about. This is a victory for America's working families. It is our responsibility to protect hard-working Americans and their children. No family should go bankrupt because of illness. We have honored our obligation to them with this historic vote on health care reform."
U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Georgia): "The American people have spoken out against this health care bill and it's unfortunate that the president and Democrats have chosen to ignore their concerns and force passage. Cuts to Medicare, tax increases and special deals do not represent meaningful reform. This bill is a political victory that will only make health care more expensive."
Sue Everhart, Chair, Georgia Republican Party: "The United States House of Representatives ignored the concerns of millions of Americans by voting to pass health care reform legislation, which increases health care premiums, creates new taxes, and passes unfunded mandates on to states and small businesses. While Democrats refused to listen now, we will make them listen in November."
Sate Sen. Judson Hill (R-Marietta): "Last week the Georgia Senate passed my bill which prevents the government from mandating participation in private or government health plans. Senate Bill 317 guarantees all Georgians the right to purchase private health insurance or join a government plan, but people can also exercise their right not to participate in any health care program without being fined. These basic freedoms have always been worth protecting, but especially now in light of Congress' vote to take away these rights."
Welcome to Georgia...
I think you get bonus points for working freedom into every statement you make.
Last edited by littlelolligagged; 03-22-2010 at 11:52 AM.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
Actually this part:
Means that I will now have to apply for Medicaid, if I can (I haven't looked over any of the new requirements), and if I can't will have to pay for insurance with a private insurer...yay! Can you feel the sarcasm of that yay?
This is the part of the bill I have a problem with though.
. . .
Is this because the public option got shafted?
(Yeah, I understand very little of the whole deal)
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote