Even if you agree on what something is, how to deal with it is still very much open for debate.Originally Posted by GGT
If there was "consensus", policy debates wouldn't be as contentious, would they?
Even if you agree on what something is, how to deal with it is still very much open for debate.If there was "consensus", policy debates wouldn't be as contentious, would they?
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Sure. But I'm not convinced policy makers are focused on anything but a "western power" ideology. After committing thousands of US soldiers lives, and giving billions of dollars to build a 'democratic Iraq'.....we're still surprised when Iraqi soldiers drop their uniforms and leave expensive military hardware for the enemy?
This pattern has been going on too long to be surprising.
I don't see much contention in the Western world over how to deal with ISIS.
Also, we were surprised when the Iraqi soldiers turned out to be useless when this all started. We're hardly surprised anymore.
Hope is the denial of reality
Then you haven't been paying much attention to the western world's political processes.
Then why are some US politicians/congress doubling down on failed policies?Also, we were surprised when the Iraqi soldiers turned out to be useless when this all started. We're hardly surprised anymore.
If I had to guess which of us two hasn't been paying attention, the guess would be you.
Doubling down? We're sending trinkets in that direction to show our allies in the region that we're willing to do "something". We don't actually want to do something, so what we're doing is actually pretty consistent with our interests.
Hope is the denial of reality
Call me crazy, but I think the best thing would be the US/western allies holding back...and expecting regional forces take the lead on their own behalf. We've given them billions in advice, training, weapons, and ammunitions for more than a decade.
If ISIS takes control of key Iraq and Syria cities, and establishes a caliphate with dominion over a large land mass and millions of people.....our previous definitions of "international relations" won't make a bit of difference. Personally, I don't care if that comes to pass. We can only do so much....
Since my last post, ISIS has taken military control of key cities in Iraq and Syria....and claimed 'responsibility' for suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia, too.
Loki, there doesn't seem to be any "consensus" about what ISIS is, let alone which policies can degrade, defeat, or destroy them. If you know the answers, please share them with the world.
If by "consensus" you mean that you don't agree with the consensus, then sure. What exactly are intelligent people disagreeing about?
Hope is the denial of reality
"Intelligent" people are disagreeing on all sorts of things....from foreign policy to military policy.
What isn't so smart is expecting military strikes can change century-long tribal feuds. Or that western democracy ideology can be easily adopted.
You said there's no consensus over what ISIS is. What exactly is the disagreement?
No one expected the military strikes to end feuds. Next?
Hope is the denial of reality
And no one, not even international relations "experts", thought ISIS was a credible threat just a few years ago. Conventional wisdom was predicated on training, funding, and supplying weapons to "rebel" forces. But that backfired in a big way.....after spending $2 Trillion plus.
How much longer are we going to continue the same actions, and expect different results?
You might want to look up the difference between past and present. Hint: you said there's no consensus now.
We're not.
Hope is the denial of reality
Then WTF are we doing?
Another bump! While it was interesting to re-read this thread from the beginning.....it's disturbing that the "Islamic State" has grown/gained ground, while we've argued around the margins to little effect.
Now a passenger plane full of Russian tourists has crashed and died in Egypt, and an ISIS-inspired bomb is considered probable, and Putin has suspended flights between Russia and Egypt...while some 50,000 Russians are trapped in airports.
It will be interesting to see how long Putin will get high marks/poll results after Russian civilians started dying for his policies.
Last edited by GGT; 11-07-2015 at 05:10 AM.
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