Question for non-british Europeans

[Hazir]

Why single out experiences of the Netherlands? We got this kind of parties all over Europe. Some have fallen apart, some are still around. It is pretty much unpredictable what will happen, also because the outcome might depend on the good or bad decisions of a few party leaders.

I didn't single out the Netherlands but we have gone through a couple of these parties already. Otherwise of course what will happen is unpredictable because you can't predict the level of anger.

[earthJoker]

I think you ignore the two facts that the CDU has moved considerably to the left and the FDP has disappeared. That means moderate right wing Germans (with the exception of Bavarians) have to decide if they want to vote for a CDU that is too left or an AfD that is too right for them. Well actually as Germans have two votes, it could be very likely that they put the 1st vote to CDU and the second to AfD.

[Hazir]

I think you ignore the two facts that the CDU has moved considerably to the left and the FDP has disappeared. That means moderate right wing Germans (with the exception of Bavarians) have to decide if they want to vote for a CDU that is too left or an AfD that is too right for them. Well actually as Germans have two votes, it could be very likely that they put the 1st vote to CDU and the second to AfD.

That is merely a wider picture that I didn't take into account. Because my focus was on the capacity of this type of party to tear itself apart.

[earthJoker]

Any kind of party can tear itself apart. See Republicans, Labour, Torries. That's a tautology.

[RandBlade]

We are the King's of tearing ourselves apart.

[Hazir]

We are the King's of tearing ourselves apart.

How many MPs defected from the CP this parliament?

Our populists got us 2 extra factions just in the present parliament. Where a defection is uncommon with the established parties I came to see them as standard with the populists.

[Flixy]

It's not like it doesn't happen with the bigger parties, though a bit more rare. We also have fractions coming from PvdA and VVD right now after all. But since the parties are bigger it's less of an issue.

Nothing can beat the spectacular self destruction of the LPF though I think it's rare that it's accompanied with (threats of) violence!

[RandBlade]

How many MPs defected from the CP this parliament?

Our populists got us 2 extra factions just in the present parliament. Where a defection is uncommon with the established parties I came to see them as standard with the populists.

LOL true, maybe only from a British perspective are we kings of it. We stay in one party and don't stab each other in the back, but stab each other in the front and then continue like nothing has happened.

[earthJoker]

How many MPs defected from the CP this parliament?

Our populists got us 2 extra factions just in the present parliament. Where a defection is uncommon with the established parties I came to see them as standard with the populists.

Not comparable. Because of the majority voting system, it's better to create a sub-group within one of the major parties (Tea Party).

We got two splits recently of well established parties, the SVP (spin off BDP) and the Greens (spin off glp).

[Flixy]

The thing with populist parties here is that they grew quickly and had (very) bad candidates as a result and no internal mechanisms to vet or select people, which is why the LPF imploded after Fortuyn was murdered. And with Wilders.. his party isn't a party, really. So no internal mechanisms either, Wilders is essentially the dictator of the party and the other 'members' were just allowed to follow whatever he decided, which caused obvious problems. The more established parties tend to settle their problems during conventions etc.

[earthJoker]

As I have some experience in active party work I can tell you, even a moderate party will attract suspicious people that have strange opinions. You have mechanisms to throw them out but it's always a headache. These kind of people are usually very narcissistic and have problems with self reflection. They will do anything to prove the other members that they are correct, and they just need to understand his position. And as soon as someone like this holds a seat, he finds himself in the right, as he was voted by "the people".

[Flixy]

But at least you have mechanism to kick then out or keep them from electable positions, over here it was more of a 'we need to fill the seats so we'll take anyone', and that didn't work out well. With the bigger parties that tends to happen more at the local than the national level.

[earthJoker]

That mechanism are not easy. And the party always gets bad attention in the process of kicking someone out.