You're the one suggesting our policies and actions should be determined by xenophobes. I'm suggesting we should do whatever is the right thing to do and fight the xenophobes.Originally Posted by Aimless
You're the one suggesting our policies and actions should be determined by xenophobes. I'm suggesting we should do whatever is the right thing to do and fight the xenophobes.
By marching alongside the xenophobes. Great way to fight them!
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
Dear lord, the irony.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
So, you're agreeing with their "Foreigners out!" campaign?
Because that's what you're actually saying here - next time, think for a nanosecond before trotting out the proverbs and misapplying them.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Looking back at this all, shouldn't we be thankful for Randblade's out vote? Imagine having to be in a Union with those people and not having a real way out ?
Congratulations America
It seems harsh to screw Londoners and Scots because of a whole lot of Little Englanders who've probably never left the country, but I guess that's democracy for you.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yes well, but in the end we're still rid of the Little Englander White Van Driving Chavs
Congratulations America
Time for London to activate the emergency forcefield, fuckers.
I wouldn't be so quick to gloat, the Brexiteers will def. take this as evidence that they did the right thing. Double rainbow man. No coincidence.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Btw, has this already begun?
https://www.rt.com/uk/334888-pay-thr...rants-workers/
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No you absolute fucking imbecile, learn to read or wipe that drool away from your face and what a proverb means. I'm saying they could have reached the right decision (on the binary choice) for the wrong reasons. As the saying means. The broken clock is right despite being broken, they could be right despite their "Foreigners out!" campaign. Not because of it. I don't agree with their campaign any more than I agree with breaking clocks.
Agreeing with someone's vote, especially in a binary choice referendum, does not mean agreeing with their logic or reason for casting that vote.
Since you believe surveys so much, 91% of Brits have been abroad and 8% haven't (presumably 1% rounding error). Come back to me how 52% of ballots cast come from the 8% of the nation who've never left the country. Especially when the quarter of people who didn't vote are more likely to be made up from that 8% too.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21...led-americans/
Yet you've still got the Austrians who wish to elect a Nazi as President and may yet still do, the Greeks and their neverending DraYes well, but in the end we're still rid of the Little Englander White Van Driving Chavschma and so on. But don't worry, you don't have to worry about flags during Euro 2016. Glad you've got your priorities.
I highlighted the £35k threshold as a problem 13 pages ago in the Opening Post FYI. Good to see you starting to catch up, though to be fair I suppose this was news to me too a few months ago and I researched the facts much more than you did.
My question was if it had already come into force and afaict your govt. could have simply chosen not to have such requirements on non-EU citizens but was unfortunately lacking in the integrity and decency dept. and had to fish for votes in those characteristically murky waters where they were already splashing around anyway.
It will be interesting to see if they'll want EU-citizens to meet simila criteria in the future.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Are you surprised this came about, Rand?
The EU's migration policy favouring migration of EU migrants over non-EU migrants? Shocking, repugnant and offensive?
Seems entirely natural to me that the migration of a non-skilled Romanian, an EU citizen, is given preference over a skilled Australian, American or Canadian.
It wouldn't surprise me by the way if the UK is going to loose skilled EU citizens at a faster rate than unskilled ones. Doctors and nurses working in the NHS may find that working in the UK isn't all that attractive any longer. And there won't be 350 million a week extra to make staying more attractive either.
Congratulations America
Thought this was hilarious btw:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1243537/dea...-your-uk-visas
Hilarious but also tragically spot-on from the perspective of several of several people I've known who've had similar experiences
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Why?
Moving on from Aimless's aimless hysteria, more facts* showing the UK is amongst the most tolerant nations in Europe. With the most tolerant view on Muslims of all EU nations surveyed.
Twitter Link
Utterly shocking that in the 21st century two-thirds of Greeks can have a negative view of Jews.
Thought exactly the same thing. On the other hand, France is quite low, considering how often you hear bad news about attacks against Jews in France.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
What's your point? That you're better than the worst? That it's a good thing that nearly one in three Brits have unfavorable views on Muslims?
Right wing parties are on the rise all over Europe and unfavorable views of outsiders and esp. of Muslims is something that is distinctly associated with preference for right-wing parties and of course also with europhobia. The UK stands out for having the smallest difference between the political right and the left wrt attitudes towards Muslims as well as unfavorable views of diversity etc.
Moreover, there's been a marked rise in unfavorable opinions about Muslims, in the UK, in the past year. There is also a high prevalence of xenophobic tropes about refugees taking jobs and benefits (in line with poll results from previous years by other pollsters), about immigrant families and crime, immigrants taking an unfair share of benefits and driving the housing shortage, immigrants getting to jump the queue etc.
A third of Tories surveyed believe increased diversity makes the UK a worse place to live. A third of Brits apparently believe that being born in the UK is very important for being "truly British". Almost one in five Brits believe the same about being Christian.
The sample sizes in each of the countries were small, with the UK's being larger by about 50%. That sample also includes less dumb parts of the UK and I have been unable to find information about attitudes in England specifically.
In 2013 four out of ten Britons believed that immigration had not been good for the UK's economy.
I'm not sure what there is to gloat about. These findings suggest that the UK is indeed worse wrt views on immigration and Muslims than you appear to believe. It just happens to be better than some other countries.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
As the survey results show, the Greeks are equal-opportunity haters.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
The fun thing about anti-semitism is that you don't need actual Jews for it. For violence against Jews on the other hand you need actual Jews. Just sayihg.
Congratulations America
That's part of it - there's also another complexity. I haven't looked at the survey methodology, but if they just asked 'do you have an unfavorable view of Jews' you're going to get skewed results. First, many stereotypes about Jews that feed into antisemitism are not on their face negative - i.e. Jews are wealthy or well connected or smart or whatever - even if the effect can be just as pernicious as negative stereotypes. Second, antisemitism is persona non grata in much of the Western world, so relatively few people will admit to it (whereas, for example, unfavorable views of Roma or Muslims have much broader currency and are less taboo). Much better surveys of antisemitic thinking tends to focus on specific beliefs held about Jews (i.e. Jews control banks/media/politics, Jews are a fifth column, etc.) and show much higher levels in places like France than this survey did.
Additionally, surveys like this don't measure the depth of an unfavorable opinion. There might be half of the Greek population openly harboring negative views about Jews, but it's probably very low-level for most of them - and given the small Jewish population in Greece, they don't have more opportunities to deepen (or reverse) their opinions. The smaller number of open antisemites in France might hold those views much more stridently, especially given the relatively high number of Jews in France and the stronger cultural taboo against open antisemitism. Stronger antisemitism leads to greater chances of violence.
Lastly, I don't want to wave the Muslim flag too much on this issue (European antisemitism has a long and varied history), but certainly the vast majority of the latest attacks on Jewish targets in France (and, indeed, in Europe) have been carried out by Islamist radicals of one sort or another. France has a large, poor, and poorly integrated Muslim population with valid grievances against the state. Given the preponderance of deeply antisemitic thinking in parts of the Muslim world (and certainly in most countries of origin for these French Muslims), combined with a theology of violent jihad, it is not surprising that more violence occurs there than in Greece, which has relatively few (permanent) immigrant Muslims.
Pretty much every French Jew I know has already left France or is considering it. The country is losing nearly 2% of their Jewish population a year to emigration and I don't see it getting much better in the current climate. It's actively dangerous to walk around even a city like Paris wearing identifiably Jewish clothing. The issue of French antisemitism is not a mirage.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
As you already pointed out, Greek anti-semitism is what it is and not quite the same as making life unsafe for Jews on a day to day basis. Being 'shocked' about it is a bit dishonest as it is easily explained by very general and not very deeply felt prejudices. I also think, more in addition to what you said that in opposition to it that outspoken non-muslim anti-semitism in countries where this is a taboo can easily take on forms that are more immediately dangerous to the physical safety of Jews than the, also worrying, but relatively low impact level types of aggression you referred to as a reason for people to leave France.
However, having said all that, I don't believe for one single moment that the level of anti-semite prejudices in Greece played any role at all in Randblades reason to vote for Brexit.
Congratulations America
Can easily be interpreted the other way, too, you idiot.No you absolute fucking imbecile, learn to read or wipe that drool away from your face and what a proverb means. I'm saying they could have reached the right decision (on the binary choice) for the wrong reasons. As the saying means. The broken clock is right despite being broken, they could be right despite their "Foreigners out!" campaign. Not because of it. I don't agree with their campaign any more than I agree with breaking clocks.
Agreeing with someone's vote, especially in a binary choice referendum, does not mean agreeing with their logic or reason for casting that vote.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
No.
Well, dude, I just did interpret it that way. Easily, too. So, your "no" doesn't really depict reality ... which is about par for the course with you. Your view of the world is so warped that you can see your own ass without a mirror or turning your head.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
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