What is it with these cops.
What is it with these cops.
Originally Posted by Steely Glint
The solution is for the US police to start acting like they're police force of a first world country, rather than an out of control third world militia.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
The solution to fraud is for people to stop doing fraud. The solution for obesity is for people to stop eating more calories than they burn. The solution to bullying is for people to stop bullying. Golly if only people would just do it!
What is being asked is what are the specific policies that folks like you, Loki and Aimless want to have in place to prevent bad shoots.
Lewk, I take it you don't criticize lone wolf terrorism since there's very little that can be done to stop it?
As for some obvious solutions to this other than mandatory body cameras and requirements to immediately release all footage? Fire cops after disciplinary infractions. It sounds silly, but it never happens. And we know that a vast majority of death by cop happens at the hands of cops with multiple infractions on their record. Discourage police departments from hiring cops who were fired from other departments. Charge cops who engage in violent behavior with civil rights violations. Encourage DAs to charge "bad cops" with crimes more frequently, even if grand juries continue to pretend it's still 1960s Mississippi. Mandate better arms training and retraining on a regular basis. Hold entire departments accountable for bad behavior from their members. Encourage community policing, which has been shown to sharply reduce bad behavior by cops.
Not that I expect most of those policies to be implemented, as they have to be done at the local level, where support for corrupt cops is at the greatest, but let's not pretend this is a problem without a solution.
Last edited by Loki; 09-24-2016 at 05:42 PM.
Hope is the denial of reality
And the reason this is funny is because that's exactly the attitude you have whenever the conversation is about crime, and some starving orphan stole a loaf of bread or something and you're doing your subsequent internet tough guy 'theft is theft and criminals should all be executed as a deterrent, look at me I'm so damn tough etc etc' routine.
It's funny how quickly your tone changes when it's people you identify with who are fucking up, isn't it? It's almost like only middle class white people are allowed to have a context or something.
What Loki said. And what Ominous Gamer said several pages ago. And what is perfectly obvious to anyone who thinks about it. Better training for cops, including descalation training, actually convict and punish or at least fire police who break the rules, have cops wear body games and make the footage publicly available. It's not that difficult, it requires only that police departments accept that there actually is a problem, and it's their fault. Which some are and some aren't.What is being asked is what are the specific policies that folks like you, Loki and Aimless want to have in place to prevent bad shoots.
They also might what to take a look at the way some of them conduct themselves when they do carry out stop and searches. I've seen some videos of incidents involve black men which didn't involve anyone getting shot, but holy shit the police do not come out of those exchanges looking good, especially when it transpires that they had the wrong person and where essentially just hassling someone for no reason. Like, some basic manners wouldn't go amiss.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Surprised those cops weren't fired. Oh, wait
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
You want a fix? Stop endorsing any death if you think the person somehow deserved it. The first step is changing the culture to one that actually values life rather than celebrating death and you're at the heart of those effectively encouraging these excesses. They are the natural consequence of attitudes like yours.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0e80b1ba22256
All sorts of isolated incidents mentioned there.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yeah sorry, not happening. I've explained myself over and over again but people don't break the law for just a few reasons. 1. Moral compass. 2. Cost/Benefit to them. If the person is not morally inclined to not do a crime the costs (or potential costs) are the only thing preventing the criminal from acting. Harsh sentences increase the costs and make it less likely for a crime to actually take place. Those that still do the crime will do less crime if they are dead or are locked away for a long period of time.
So lets get specific.
Firing cops for disciplinary issues. I can get behind this - where do you want the enforcement of this? You mention local level so are you suggesting local mayor's office go about legislating stricter rules for officers. Do you know what problem with this? Unions.
In regards to discouraging departments from hiring cops who had discipline issues elsewhere... I could see that turning ugly quick. One person's 'disciplinary' issue could actually be retaliation for doing the right thing and reporting on another cop. Wells Fargo (in a completely different industry yes) just had a story break about several individuals who appropriately used an ethics hotline and were fired for it. I'm not sure this is a good step.
Charging cops for civil rights violations? I'd like more details on who do you think should be bringing those charges and specifically in what scenarios.
Encouraging DAs to charge 'bad cops' with crimes - I can totally get behind this. Again though, that's for the individual voters to decide. Or are you suggesting DAs be replaced by a federal oversight agency? State agency?
Mandating better arms training seems like a good start though I have no idea what the required arms training actually is or knowledge enough to know if it would be sufficient.
Holding entire departments accountable for bad behavior from their members seems odd. Collective guilt doesn't make sense in almost all cases and then again... you have the union problem. I'm wondering if you think police unions (and other governmental worker unions) should simply not exist so you don't run into the problem. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I'll ask - is that a position you support?
I like links too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdDc...be&app=desktop
You cheer even when no crime was being committed, when you think they had a criminal activity in their past, or just "looked" bad enough when the cops stop them then shoot them. You see no value in life, only property, and so you (and lots like you) give the police a pass on every flimsy pretext. So long as they're getting that, things aren't going to really change.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I've never been in favor of polices shooting people who haven't done a crime. When they shot the guy trying to help the mentally ill patient I condemned it.
I think it's important to remember that US police departments aren't just cheered on by members of the public that are like Lewkowski--they are full of police officers that are like Lewkowski. Whereas Lewk is anonymous and careful to not engage in overt racism, these officers proudly display their lack of basic decency both on duty and off, irl. and on social media. They are inveterate shitbags and I'm not sure you can teach these people. You might be able to get them to snitch on, punish or fire their own kind, but it's not likely. What you can do however is start working on recruiting better people and training them well enough that the next generation of cops doesn't end up being full of shitbags.
I'm a little ambivalent about the role of punishment in these matters, at least when it comes to things that can legitimately be seen as symptoms of systemic failures eg. of training or lack of guidance and experience. That can encourage cops to try to cover up fuckups and problems instead of learning to do better.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
https://twitter.com/TheInsaneRobin
Start with the tweet 12 hours back (regarding student). Another isolated incident.
Hope is the denial of reality
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/29/us...ing/index.html
I'd forgotten about this
Wonder if there'll be any negative consequences for the police.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
That father should be in prison for felony homicide.
You're right, those cops should indeed be in prison for killing a kid
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I haven't made that statement. I'm talking strictly of the absolute piece of filth that would go on a high speed chase with their child in the back of their car. That person should never see the light of day again. That course of action cannot be defended or condoned by any right thinking person. Running from the police and putting yourself and other people around you at risk is already something that should lead to mandatory prison time... to do it while your own child is in the car? Unconscionable.
If you're in the car of someone running from police, you lose your right to life. I think that's in the Constitution somewhere. Article XII, maybe?
Hope is the denial of reality
That poor strawman has suffered enough hasn't he?
And yet you don't think the police did anything wrong in killing the child.
Hope is the denial of reality
You make it sound like they did it on purpose. Only dangerous deranged criminals flee from the police. Letting him get away wasn't an option. Should they have shot at that point, that's where it gets tricky. Bottom line though none of this would have happened if the father wasn't a twisted evil moronic scumbag. Criminals like him do need to be put down, and it is a tragic situation when an innocent child dies for the sins of the father.
That would require that their father had committed a felony first. You'll note he hasn't been charged with a damn thing. Because he committed no crime.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Fleeing from the police... you are required to stop.
That assumes everyone hears and understands police commands equally, which of course they don't. If I'm caught in some chaotic event as a bystander, I wouldn't automatically "know" who's the police, but I sure as hell would be running for cover. I'd probably assume they were yelling STOP to the perpetrators, not me.
Don't know how folks in a psychotic episode interpret police commands, but it's probably not far from mine, where we're presumed innocent. Don't know how police are trained to know the difference, but it probably doesn't help much that we have so many legal guns in the mix.
A "pursuit" does not mean a suspect is fleeing. You need to be able to establish mens rea. If someone has done nothing that might lead to getting pulled over (and every piece is quite clear that he did not do anything that would warrant being pulled over after all) than they have every reason to believe that the cop behind them is actually after someone else. If you're trying to get out of a police car's way so that they can go after whoever it is they're really after, well that looks like evasion too. And hey, he didn't get charged with anything. Which shows that yes, even though you heard something described as a pursuit in a journalist's article, the locals think he didn't do ANYTHING they could manage to charge him with.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Is there anything at all a police officer could do that would warrant even a slap on the wrist in your mind? Filling a car full of lead might stop someone who is fleeing the police, but it also can have horrific consequences for innocent bystanders or passengers. You seem to believe that if a car doesn't pull over in the first ten seconds, a police officer is justified in using deadly force against not only the driver of the car, but also anyone else inside the car, or anyone who happens to be hit by errant rounds.
I can clarify my position for you. I absolutely think police should give people more than 10 seconds before shooting the car.
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