That whole poppy thing

[Hazir]

It's november again and the Brits are buying fake red flowers modelled after the poppies that supposedly covered the battlefields of Flanders during what is known as World War I (more like the umpteenth European Civil War but that's a different discussion). Now, I am all for people having the liberty to buy fake red flowers and pin them to their clothes for some make-belief support for soldiers who died a long long time ago. I could make the point it makes more sense to actually support those soldiers who are at risk of still being killed, but again that is not the issue at hand.


What I am surprised about is that the Brits are getting closer and closer to the point where you have to explain and have to be ready for the backlash after your explanation for not wanting an ugly fake red flower on your clothes. What's up with that Brits, why the nastiness about not wanting to wear a fake poppy?

[Unheard Of]

These days
we default to nasty
to better show our patriotism

[RandBlade]

I've never met anyone who is nasty about anyone not wanting to wear a poppy. I every year get a poppy but don't wear it.

There's no ethical reason for me not to wear it. I just find it impractical.

Never had anyone criticise me ever for not wearing one.

Your condescension on the other hand on this subject is rather sad. The Royal British Legion does good work and their fundraising here is not to simply "make-belief support for soldiers who died a long long time ago". The Legion works with those alive today not the past.

[Steely Glint]

Hazir, absolutely laying it on with a trowel, there

"And the BRITISH, who are DUMB and STUPID and CAN'T COOK, have these STUPID RED UGLY FLOWERS which aren't even REAL FLOWERS to commemorate their STUPID WAR DEAD who died in a war WHICH WAS STUPID ANYWAY and also A LONG TIME AGO and ALSO THERE WEREN'T EVEN RED FLOWERS ON FLANDERS and so THATS STUPID AS WELL are you provoked yet? no? shit. uh, THEY DON'T LOOK AFTER REAL SOLDIERS WITH THEIR FAKE POPPY FUNDS and now these STUPID FUCKERS WANT to WEAR THEIR STUPID FAKE FLOWERS TO COMMEMORATE THEIR STUPID DEAD SOLDIERS at a football match, can you believe that shit

also here's the bit where i pretend to be reasonable for about two sentences oh, nope, shit lost it again FUCK THE BRITISH

fucking brexit though"

Fantastic thread, Hazir.

Nice work.

Glad you took the time to contribute.

Great.

[Hazir]

Actually, I wasn't talking about FIFA at all. But can you honestly say that honoring the long dead is the way to deal with that particular war? If we want to draw any lesson from it you shouldn't dig up sob stories about the bravery of the cannon fodder but about the criminal incompetence of the leaders. Plastic flowers aren't going to give any dignity back to anybody who died knee deep in dirt, shit and blood. For no better cause than that a war might start at an inconvenient time.

[Steely Glint]

What if I told you... those aren't mutually exclusive.

[Hazir]

In theory, in practise what we see every year is millions of those things and commemorations as if great deeds were done. If you're lucky and don't sleep early you may find a documentary explaining Haig on the History Channel, but not before they've run out of re-runs of American Pickers. And despite Randblade's denial, the pressure to wear one of those bloody pieces of plastic is big enough to cause caustic exchanges every single year.

[Steely Glint]

If you think the incompetence of the generals isn't a massive part of the popular perception of World War 1 in this and other countries then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

And despite Randblade's denial, the pressure to wear one of those bloody pieces of plastic is big enough to cause caustic exchanges every single year.

No, it isn't.

He and I live here, remember? If that was something that happened, we'd know about it. We don't really need someone who's maybe visited the country a couple of times to explain what the prevailing social customs around wearing poppies are, thank you.

[RandBlade]

Actually, I wasn't talking about FIFA at all. But can you honestly say that honoring the long dead is the way to deal with that particular war? If we want to draw any lesson from it you shouldn't dig up sob stories about the bravery of the cannon fodder but about the criminal incompetence of the leaders. Plastic flowers aren't going to give any dignity back to anybody who died knee deep in dirt, shit and blood. For no better cause than that a war might start at an inconvenient time.

You do realise these "plastic flowers" as you so mockingly put it are not commercial they are fundraising for the Royal British Legion. You should maybe educate yourself on the work the Legion does before mocking that.

Again I live here and don't wear one and haven't had even a single exchange in my entire life about that. Some pressure.

[Hazir]

So, to fund this organisation you need to glorify what constitutes your part in what is easily the biggest war crime in your history?

[Steely Glint]

People don't wear them all the time anyway, the just put it on whatever coat they happen to have with them when the buy one, so you can't even tell who has one by looking at them.

[Steely Glint]

So, to fund this organisation you need to glorify what constitutes your part in what is easily the biggest war crime in your history?

I don't think you know what any of those words mean.

[Steely Glint]

Hazir, do you know what World War 1 actually was? I'm not convinced that you do. Literally everything you've said in this thread so far has been wrong. Not "I don't agree with it" wrong, I mean, genuinely factually incorrect.

Can you explain what World War 1 was, in your words?

No googling!

[wiggin]

So, to fund this organisation you need to glorify what constitutes your part in what is easily the biggest war crime in your history?

Seriously, Hazir. Give it a rest.

[Aimless]

I didn't think poppy fascism was a thing but it looks like it's a thing:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...SANDBROOK.html

https://www.google.se/search?client=...=poppy+fascism

[Steely Glint]

It's not a thing.

[Hazir]

Seriously, Hazir. Give it a rest.

I realise it can seem like I'm just taking a piss out of the Brits, but I do actually feel quite strong about that whole glorification thing that's going on about war in general and World War I in particular. I think it's hard to find a war in our history which was started over less spurrious reasons that that particular one. And then when the massive crime got started it was led by people of whom it's hard to tell which lives they disregarded more; those of their enemies or those of their own soldiers.

And then I am reminded of how people in the UK have this pressure thing going on about this glorification. It's quite something. And the Brits are the only ones doing it.

[Hazir]

It's not a thing.

Bullshit, it's a thing every bloody year. There is virtually nobody on the BBC who hasn't got one of those bloody things on. And people who don't feel the need to explain why they don't.

[Aimless]

According to wikipedia it's a thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rememb...nd_controversy

So I just don't know who or what to believe.

[Steely Glint]

You remember when the new Star Wars came up and there was this big uproar by fans about there being a black Stormtrooper, only it turned out to be about 6 very sad, very stupid people with anime avatars on Twitter and not an uproar at all?

It's like that.

There is not a single possible combination of race, gender, nationality, sexual preference, preference for romantic partners, political opinion, fashion, taste in media, taste in food or drink, choice in consumer goods (etc, etc) that some over-righteous dumbshit on social media has not at some point proclaimed to be completely unacceptable because of [stupid bullshit].

And if you're short on column inches, it is but the work of moments to do a quick search on Facebook or something and turn out an article about this new phenomena of [being a dumbshit on soial media].

There is an expectation that public figures wear them when doing public figure stuff, at the appropriate time of year. This is a similar phenomena to American politicians having to wear those flag pins. It is absolutely 100% not something you would ever encounter in your day to day life.

[Hazir]

I don't know that US TV presenters are ordered to wear a flag pin. Or attacked for not wearing one.

[Steely Glint]

I don't think it's productive to have a discussion about the ins and outs of poppy wearing with someone who is unaware of the difference between commemoration and glorification.

[RandBlade]

It's not a thing.

This.

[Steely Glint]

Anyone else who doesn't live in Britain want to explain what an aspect of British life is like to people who live in Britain?

[LittleFuzzy]

Hazir, do you know what World War 1 actually was? I'm not convinced that you do. Literally everything you've said in this thread so far has been wrong. Not "I don't agree with it" wrong, I mean, genuinely factually incorrect.

Can you explain what World War 1 was, in your words?

No googling!

I for one was quite amused by his attempt to retcon one of the hyper-nationalist periods in the region's very divided interstate history as an internal conflict within an integrated state entity.

[Loki]

So, about all those stores closing at 4-5 PM on a good day...

[Hazir]

I for one was quite amused by his attempt to retcon one of the hyper-nationalist periods in the region's very divided interstate history as an internal conflict within an integrated state entity.

Like nationalism is a fixed element in the history of any country or region. I am pretty certain what you call your civil war now was a war of independence for one of the parties involved.

But what is funnier is that you obviously missed the fact that what I really did was dismiss the notion that that mostly intra-European conflict was a 'world war'.

[Loki]

[Hazir]

And now a map showing the actual battlefields? A map that will show that the only battle outside of Europe not in Ottoman territory was a an altercation near the Falklands ? And even thst was Brits vs Germans.

[Steely Glint]

Hazir, which of these is World War 1?

A:


B:



C:



D: