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Thread: SCOTUS to Hear Wisconsin Gerrymandering Case

  1. #1

    Default SCOTUS to Hear Wisconsin Gerrymandering Case

    So, after Gerrymandering the shit out of Wisconsin's voter districts, the GOP was able to capture a 60 to 39 seat advantage in the State Assembly with only 48.6% of the vote. The Question is, will the Supreme Court Majority vote to protect their party's nation-wide strategy for combating America's shifting demographics, or to protect America's democracy from the threat that strategy represents? It's so hard not to be cynical.

    Supreme Court to hear potentially landmark case on partisan gerrymandering

    The Supreme Court declared Monday that it will consider whether gerrymandered election maps favoring one political party over another violate the Constitution, a potentially fundamental change in the way American elections are conducted.

    The justices regularly are called to invalidate state electoral maps that have been illegally drawn to reduce the influence of racial minorities by depressing the impact of their votes.

    But the Supreme Court has never found a plan unconstitutional because of partisan gerrymandering. If it does, it would have a revolutionary impact on the reapportionment that comes after the 2020 election and could come at the expense of Republicans, who control the process in the majority of states.

    The court accepted a case from Wisconsin, where a divided panel of three federal judges last year ruled last year that the state’s Republican leadership in 2011 pushed through a plan so partisan that it violated the Constitution’s First Amendment and equal rights protections.

    The issue will be briefed and argued in the Supreme Court term that begins in October.

    The justices gave themselves a bit of an out: They said they will further consider their jurisdiction over the case when it is heard on its merits.

    The court’s action comes at a time when the relatively obscure subject of reapportionment has taken on new significance, with many blaming the drawing of safely partisan seats for a polarized and gridlocked Congress. Former president Barack Obama has said that one of his post-presidency projects will be to combat partisan gerrymanders after the 2020 Census.

    Both parties draw congressional and legislative districts to their own advantage — a challenge to a congressional plan drawn by Maryland Democrats is making its way through the courts.

    But Republicans have more to lose because they control so many more state legislatures. The Republican National Committee and a dozen large Republican states have asked the court to reverse the Wisconsin decision.

    That state’s legislative leaders asked the Supreme Court in their brief to reject any effort that “wrests control of districting away from the state legislators to whom the state constitution assigns that task, and hands it to federal judges and opportunistic plaintiffs seeking to accomplish in court what they failed to achieve at the ballot box.”

    But the dozen plaintiffs — voters across the state — said the evidence laid out in a trial in the Wisconsin case showed that “Republican legislative leaders authorized a secretive and exclusionary mapmaking process aimed at securing for their party a large advantage that would persist no matter what happened in future elections.”

    In the election after adoption of the new maps, Republicans got just 48.6 percent of the statewide vote, but captured a 60-to-39 seat advantage in the State Assembly.

    The head of a group representing the plaintiffs in the Wisconsin case welcomed the court’s decision to consider it.

    “The threat of partisan gerrymandering isn’t a Democratic or Republican issue; it’s an issue for all American voters,” said Trevor Potter, president of the Campaign Legal Center, and former Republican chairman of the Federal Election Commission. “Across the country, we’re witnessing legislators of both parties seizing power from voters in order to advance their purely partisan purposes. We’re confident that when the justices see how pervasive and damaging this practice has become, the Supreme Court will adopt a clear legal standard that will ensure our democracy functions as it should.”

    The Supreme Court has been reluctant to tackle partisan gerrymandering and sort through arguments about whether an electoral system is rigged or, instead, a party’s political advantage is because of changing attitudes and demographics, as Wisconsin Republicans contend.

    The justices last took up the topic in 2004 in a case called Vieth v. Jubelirer. It split the court five different ways, with the bottom line being that the justices could not agree on a test to determine when normal political instincts such as protecting your own turned into an unconstitutional dilution of someone else’s vote.

    Four justices — only Justice Clarence Thomas remains of the group — said it was not the court’s business to make such decisions. Four others — only Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer remain — said such challenges could be heard by the court but disagreed on the method.

    Justice Anthony M. Kennedy was in the middle. He joined the first group to decide the specific case against the challengers of a Pennsylvania redistricting plan, but he left the door open for future cases.

    Kennedy said he could envision a successful challenge “where a state enacts a law that has the purpose and effect of subjecting a group of voters or their party to disfavored treatment.” What was elusive, Kennedy said, was “a manageable standard by which to measure the effect of the apportionment and so to conclude that the state did impose a burden or restriction on the rights of a party’s voters.”

    In the Wisconsin case, plaintiffs pushed a plan called the “efficiency gap” to determine how Republican mapmakers hurt Democrats with the main tools of gerrymandering: “packing” and “cracking.” These refer to packing like-minded voters, such as supporters of the same party, into a limited number of districts or cracking their influence by scattering them across districts in numbers too small to make an impact.

    Under the approach, developed by two University of Chicago professors, every voter packed into a district above the threshold needed to elect a candidate from his party creates a “surplus” vote. And someone in a cracked district, who votes for a candidate that is unable to win, is a “lost” vote. Surplus and lost votes are considered wasted votes.

    The efficiency gap measures the difference between the wasted votes of the two parties in an election divided by the total number of votes cast.

    The Wisconsin court was not so definitive. It acknowledged the efficiency gap, but only as one of several theories the court said corroborated its findings that the Republican leadership had a discriminatory intent, that its plan had a discriminatory effect and that the state had no legitimate reason for drawing the districts in the way it did.

    The state contends that while Wisconsin is a purple state in national elections, its geography favors Republicans in legislative elections. Democratic voters are clustered in cities such as Milwaukee and Madison, while Republican voters are more evenly spread across the state. Any method of drawing districts will favor Republicans, they contend.

    Before 2011, the last two electoral maps were drawn by federal judges after the legislature was unable to reach agreement. Under both, the state maintains, Republicans gained majorities in the legislature in excess of their proportion of the statewide vote.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.fee7ef9af4d7
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  2. #2
    I can't imagine they're going to come up with a workable standard for the appellate courts to use. And this is a case where they'll be applying rational basis rather than strict scrutiny.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  3. #3
    You're thinking the intent in taking the case is to shoot it down?
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  4. #4
    I don't see any way to overturn the 2004 precedent. The issues then have still not been addressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    You're thinking the intent in taking the case is to shoot it down?
    It's possible, I suppose. I don't think they could get a majority to agree that it's just not something the Court would/should never hear though, and that's the only worthwhile method for shooting it down they have. I don't see how they wouldn't end up in the same position as in 2004, the appellate courts haven't come up with something better than they had then (because really, there just isn't a good test to use here)
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    It's possible, I suppose. I don't think they could get a majority to agree that it's just not something the Court would/should never hear though, and that's the only worthwhile method for shooting it down they have. I don't see how they wouldn't end up in the same position as in 2004, the appellate courts haven't come up with something better than they had then (because really, there just isn't a good test to use here)
    I'm assuming they wouldn't take the case unless they believe their decision will be something substantive... Or is it just that the majority wants to overturn the lower court to free up the GOP to proceed at least in Wisconsin and prevent a precedent that might upset things elsewhere?
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  7. #7
    Surely its quite possible that the majority don't know how they'll rule before the case is heard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Surely its quite possible that the majority don't know how they'll rule before the case is heard?
    Here's to hoping that's the case, or that at least they intend to hear the arguments with an open mind/ concern for fair elections.

    IMHO, it's a no-brainer -- district maps should be drawn by a non-partisan commission everywhere in the country, in the interest of maintaining fair elections. There has been gerrymandering in the past to foster minority representation in Congress (a different discussion), but it should stop for strictly partisan purposes. Of course the powers-that-be over the last ~240 years of the nation's history have not recognized it as a no-brainer, so, whatever.

    These days, I do find it hard to believe that the court would take this case without some pre-intent at shooting it down.... On the other hand, maybe these folks will do the right thing.
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  9. #9
    Who makes up or appoints the non-partisan commission? Who ratifies the non-partisan recommendations? Can they be blocked to stay on with older ones indefinitely? Here a non-partisan commission designs the boundaries which are then ratified or rejected on a straight vote by Parliament.

    But there have been increasing efforts to manipulate the independent boundaries by partisans. In the mid-90s the Labour Party which was ruthlessly organised and wildly popular at the time ran a highly effective lobbying effort and got a lot of input into the independent boundary commission reforms, which helped magnify their victory in 1997 (though they'd have won a landslide anyway even without that). The boundary reforms that were scheduled since then have been blocked for partisan reasons as the existing boundaries suit many politicians better than new ones would.

    As a result in 2010 which was still using the old boundaries as over a decade before it was said that if Labour and the Tories were tied in votes then Labour would win a major victory because the boundaries were so biased in their favour.

    Efficiency can change and isn't static. In 2015 using the same boundaries, the Tories won a shock overall majority. Due to major changes in how the electorate votes [especially in Scotland] suddenly the boundaries were biased in favour of the Tories. Despite being the same boundaries.
    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...eral-election/


    It's worth noting that as May decided to go to the polls a year before the new boundaries were put in place and lost her majority it is now likely that partisans in Parliament will vote down the new boundaries the independent commission are still drawing up as new fair boundaries will hurt everyone except the Tories who are still hampered by how bad the 90s boundaries were for them (despite now being more effective in them recently).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #10
    There are numerous studies showing that independent commissions consistently produce electoral maps that better reflect the partisan distribution of the electorate than do legislators.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I'm assuming they wouldn't take the case unless they believe their decision will be something substantive... Or is it just that the majority wants to overturn the lower court to free up the GOP to proceed at least in Wisconsin and prevent a precedent that might upset things elsewhere?
    You only need four justices to grant cert and they're not necessarily like-minded justices. The Court can and has agreed to hear cases they could not reach agreement on. It's what they did in 2004 after all.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  12. #12
    I'm surprised 4 agreed given the lack of contradictory opinions at the appellate level.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    There are numerous studies showing that independent commissions consistently produce electoral maps that better reflect the partisan distribution of the electorate than do legislators.
    It's also hardly the any alternative. IIRC they were talking about computerized redistricting a while back, maybe in CO?
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Who makes up or appoints the non-partisan commission? Who ratifies the non-partisan recommendations? Can they be blocked to stay on with older ones indefinitely?
    No idea. I believe Arizona has a non-partisan commission that draws the maps, but I'm not familiar with the nuts and bolts of it.

    But there have been increasing efforts to manipulate the independent boundaries by partisans.
    The struggle against humanity's unceasing desire to game any system of rules is by necessity unceasing as well... That's got to be a bit of the human condition, I think.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Here's to hoping that's the case, or that at least they intend to hear the arguments with an open mind/ concern for fair elections.

    IMHO, it's a no-brainer -- district maps should be drawn by a non-partisan commission everywhere in the country, in the interest of maintaining fair elections.
    It doesn't matter if it's a no-brainer because the Court literally doesn't have the authority to do order that (it would be massive overreach even by judicial activism standards too. It very clearly goes beyond judicial review) The Constitution explicitly leaves the matter to the states who themselves must respect Congressional regulation. Federal judicial authority has no say in the matter beyond invalidating results for violating Constitutional provisions or said Congressional regulation.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    You only need four justices to grant cert and they're not necessarily like-minded justices....
    I did not realize it was only 4. Seems like a reasonable gate-keeper strategy....

    If the court did not take the case, then the lower court ruling would stand, yes? If so, then it still makes me think the intent in taking the case is to reverse the ruling. Why would the court's liberals take it and risk the very obvious?
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    It doesn't matter if it's a no-brainer because the Court literally doesn't have the authority to do order that (it would be massive overreach even by judicial activism standards too. It very clearly goes beyond judicial review) The Constitution explicitly leaves the matter to the states who themselves must respect Congressional regulation. Federal judicial authority has no say in the matter beyond invalidating results for violating Constitutional provisions or said Congressional regulation.
    Oh, I didn't actually mean that the court ought to make it happen, but more generally that it ought to be "the law of the land."
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    It's also hardly the any alternative. IIRC they were talking about computerized redistricting a while back, maybe in CO?
    Virtually anything is better than having legislators draw those maps. But this also seems like a political question.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  19. #19
    I've actually wondered what would be the best design for an 'algorithm' (or rules for a commission) to ensure the best districts. After all, it's not always obvious that there is a straightforward rule that would make universal sense. For example, should we try to make each district representative of the demographic or economic makeup of the state as a whole? Should we try to make each district roughly circular/square and ignore anything about the voter demographics? Should we try to create majority-minority districts in order to ensure diverse representation of views? Etc. The controversies over district lines in the South has a fascinating history, where originally creating majority-minority districts was seen as necessary to provide minorities with a voice but is now seen by many as creating inefficient voter distributions that favor one party over another (which was the whole point at first!).

    I think that answering these questions is of course a political one, but once rules on the 'best' district makeup are established, there's really no reason to need a commission other than to allow chances for fudging - much better to write a good program and automate it.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I've actually wondered what would be the best design for an 'algorithm' (or rules for a commission) to ensure the best districts. After all, it's not always obvious that there is a straightforward rule that would make universal sense. For example, should we try to make each district representative of the demographic or economic makeup of the state as a whole? Should we try to make each district roughly circular/square and ignore anything about the voter demographics? Should we try to create majority-minority districts in order to ensure diverse representation of views? Etc. The controversies over district lines in the South has a fascinating history, where originally creating majority-minority districts was seen as necessary to provide minorities with a voice but is now seen by many as creating inefficient voter distributions that favor one party over another (which was the whole point at first!).

    I think that answering these questions is of course a political one, but once rules on the 'best' district makeup are established, there's really no reason to need a commission other than to allow chances for fudging - much better to write a good program and automate it.
    Yeah program automation that ignores pretty much everything but population density for the sake of access to polling places would be best. Could not give a shit if there are too many or too few of a demographic group.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Here's to hoping that's the case, or that at least they intend to hear the arguments with an open mind/ concern for fair elections.

    IMHO, it's a no-brainer -- district maps should be drawn by a non-partisan commission everywhere in the country, in the interest of maintaining fair elections. There has been gerrymandering in the past to foster minority representation in Congress (a different discussion), but it should stop for strictly partisan purposes. Of course the powers-that-be over the last ~240 years of the nation's history have not recognized it as a no-brainer, so, whatever.

    These days, I do find it hard to believe that the court would take this case without some pre-intent at shooting it down.... On the other hand, maybe these folks will do the right thing.
    It's really hard to divorce the issue of racial and political gerrymandering at this point. I think if you allow any of them, the others are pretty fair game. Aligning to geographic/developmental regions seems like the best case.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    It's really hard to divorce the issue of racial and political gerrymandering at this point. I think if you allow any of them, the others are pretty fair game. Aligning to geographic/developmental regions seems like the best case.
    From what little I recall on racial gerrymandering, it was done in the south to create some black-majority districts, and therefore black Representatives in the House. Democrats liked it because it suited the idealists and ensured a Democrat seat in the house and Republicans liked it because it "ethnically cleansed" the neighboring districts, increasing the odds of Republican dominance. So it wasn't just for empowering minorities, it was politically partisan too, which is probably the only reason it could get done.

    The thing that bothers me is the underlying assumption that without the gerrymandering, the only way there can be black Representatives is if black people all live in the same area, aka geographic racial segregation. Or, in other words, most white people won't vote for black candidates. I guess that's probably true in the "deep south", where likely both parties were drawing districts to spread out the black vote as much as possible, so as to dilute black political power. But what about elsewhere in the US? Obama got elected twice for president, and he was elected to the Senate before that.... I don't know. Again, it bothers me. I wonder how many black Congressmen are from majority white districts today?
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    From what little I recall on racial gerrymandering, it was done in the south to create some black-majority districts, and therefore black Representatives in the House. Democrats liked it because it suited the idealists and ensured a Democrat seat in the house and Republicans liked it because it "ethnically cleansed" the neighboring districts, increasing the odds of Republican dominance. So it wasn't just for empowering minorities, it was politically partisan too, which is probably the only reason it could get done.
    It's. . . weird. In some cases it's struck down by the Courts, in others it is mandated. it depends on just how the most recent redistricting has gone. The thing is, the '65 Voting Rights Act actually prohibits redistricting in a way that would reduce the ability of racial or lingual minorities form electing the "candidate of their choice"

    The thing that bothers me is the underlying assumption that without the gerrymandering, the only way there can be black Representatives is if black people all live in the same area, aka geographic racial segregation. Or, in other words, most white people won't vote for black candidates. I guess that's probably true in the "deep south", where likely both parties were drawing districts to spread out the black vote as much as possible, so as to dilute black political power. But what about elsewhere in the US? Obama got elected twice for president, and he was elected to the Senate before that.... I don't know. Again, it bothers me. I wonder how many black Congressmen are from majority white districts today?
    Majority white? I don't think that number is tracked. For last term's Congress, of the 44 African-Americans in the House, 23 were from majority-black districts and 21 were not. Only 10 were from districts where African-Americans make up less than 30% of the population (demographics being what they are, I expect this is the bare minimum for which you might find a white majority) and of those 10, only 1 did not have a higher than national-average black population (the 4th Congressional District of Utah, where African-Americans are 1.8% of the population). Conversely there is only one black-majority district with a non-black Representative.
    Last edited by LittleFuzzy; 06-28-2017 at 11:26 PM.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    The thing that bothers me is the underlying assumption that without the gerrymandering, the only way there can be black Representatives is if black people all live in the same area, aka geographic racial segregation. Or, in other words, most white people won't vote for black candidates. I guess that's probably true in the "deep south", where likely both parties were drawing districts to spread out the black vote as much as possible, so as to dilute black political power. But what about elsewhere in the US? Obama got elected twice for president, and he was elected to the Senate before that.... I don't know. Again, it bothers me. I wonder how many black Congressmen are from majority white districts today?
    I can tell you the demographics of most NYC neighborhoods based on the last name of the city councilperson or state representative from that district. If you think ethnic/racial bias doesn't affect voting behavior, I have a bridge to sell you.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  25. #25
    Tragic that it is still the case in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I can tell you the demographics of most NYC neighborhoods based on the last name of the city councilperson or state representative from that district. If you think ethnic/racial bias doesn't affect voting behavior, I have a bridge to sell you.
    So what's a democracy to do with congressional districts where the minorities are combined with a majority that will essentially ensure the representative is of the majority ethnicity? Gerrymander to make a majority minority district? Accept that majority rules? Hope that the majority's choice won't be a racist? Does it even matter with a congressional district? I mean, what did the past racial gerrymandering in the South really achieve for those districts in terms of policy influence? Probably more than one would think.... or not?
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  27. #27
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    To be honest I don't really know any way to divide districts in a completely non partisan way. How's that done in the UK?

    Historical boundaries (city county or state lines) seems most obvious but hard to do while keeping roughly the same amount of voters per district.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  28. #28
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    So what's a democracy to do with congressional districts where the minorities are combined with a majority that will essentially ensure the representative is of the majority ethnicity? Gerrymander to make a majority minority district? Accept that majority rules? Hope that the majority's choice won't be a racist? Does it even matter with a congressional district? I mean, what did the past racial gerrymandering in the South really achieve for those districts in terms of policy influence? Probably more than one would think.... or not?
    Just want to clarify...are you saying districts should be drawn to mirror ethnicity?

    That takes us back to partisan hack drawing the lines.

    But if I have misunderstood what you said, I apologize now.

    Anyhoo, would really like the algorithm method of dividing up districts. Shortest route to cut a area in half, then repeat until you get the needed number of districts.
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    So what's a democracy to do with congressional districts where the minorities are combined with a majority that will essentially ensure the representative is of the majority ethnicity? Gerrymander to make a majority minority district? Accept that majority rules? Hope that the majority's choice won't be a racist? Does it even matter with a congressional district? I mean, what did the past racial gerrymandering in the South really achieve for those districts in terms of policy influence? Probably more than one would think.... or not?
    Realistically, the party that relies on minority support nationally has an incentive to run at some least minorities everywhere. It's why about a third of Democrats in Congress are minorities. In contrast to ~5% of Republicans.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/brea...raphics-gender (source slightly dated)
    Hope is the denial of reality

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    From what little I recall on racial gerrymandering, it was done in the south to create some black-majority districts, and therefore black Representatives in the House. Democrats liked it because it suited the idealists and ensured a Democrat seat in the house and Republicans liked it because it "ethnically cleansed" the neighboring districts, increasing the odds of Republican dominance. So it wasn't just for empowering minorities, it was politically partisan too, which is probably the only reason it could get done.

    The thing that bothers me is the underlying assumption that without the gerrymandering, the only way there can be black Representatives is if black people all live in the same area, aka geographic racial segregation. Or, in other words, most white people won't vote for black candidates. I guess that's probably true in the "deep south", where likely both parties were drawing districts to spread out the black vote as much as possible, so as to dilute black political power. But what about elsewhere in the US? Obama got elected twice for president, and he was elected to the Senate before that.... I don't know. Again, it bothers me. I wonder how many black Congressmen are from majority white districts today?
    Were you aware that Section 5 covered districts in places such as NY and California?

    https://www.justice.gov/crt/jurisdic...ered-section-5

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