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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #5671
    Saying its the most popular newspaper in the UK today is like talking about the most popular sunscreen in the UK (for January only).

    Most popular of nothing is still nothing. Do you think the Dail Fail readership is 50% of the country? 40%? 30? 20? 10? 5?

    No, its readership is well below 2% of country. Even the Lib Dems can get more than 2%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #5672
    I'd wager we'd still be in the EU if the DM hadn't have spent the last 40 years slagging it off.

  3. #5673
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Saying its the most popular newspaper in the UK today is like talking about the most popular sunscreen in the UK (for January only).

    Most popular of nothing is still nothing. Do you think the Dail Fail readership is 50% of the country? 40%? 30? 20? 10? 5?

    No, its readership is well below 2% of country. Even the Lib Dems can get more than 2%.
    I understand how you've arrived at this number, and it's wrong. The 2% figure applies to print circulation, not to readership, which is almost certainly higher. It also does not reflect influence. Finally, it offers a very narrow picture in a world where much—or most—news is consumed on connected devices; the Mail has roughly 375 million visitors a month, 40% of which are in the UK. In 2020, it was the 10th most visited website for users in the UK.
    Last edited by Aimless; 01-12-2021 at 04:45 PM.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  4. #5674
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    375 visitors a month isn't a lot
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  5. #5675
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    375 visitors a month isn't a lot
    It is if they read a million articles each
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  6. #5676
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I understand how you've arrived at this number, and it's wrong. The 2% figure applies to print circulation, not to readership, which is almost certainly higher. It also does not reflect influence. Finally, it offers a very narrow picture in a world where much—or most—news is consumed on connected devices; the Mail has roughly 375 million visitors a month, 40% of which are in the UK. In 2020, it was the 10th most visited website for users in the UK.
    That is a different metric. Tenth most visited website if it were actually true is far, far more interesting and relevant in the year 2021 than the most popular newspaper.

    Although I'm curious where you got the 10th from. Any listing I've seen puts them much, much lower. This one from Alexa rankings puts them 31st. For reference that is below the Guardian, Roblox, Sportsbible and Pornhub as other examples. https://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/GB

    According to this top 20, the Daily Mail isn't in the Top 20: https://www.lexiconnect.co.uk/top-20-uk-websites.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #5677
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That is a different metric. Tenth most visited website if it were actually true is far, far more interesting and relevant in the year 2021 than the most popular newspaper.
    It's not all that different; most newspapers are now read online, so any assessment of a newspaper's readership must include online visitors. Suffice to say the print circulation is the least informative metric if you're interested in readership.

    Although I'm curious where you got the 10th from. Any listing I've seen puts them much, much lower. This one from Alexa rankings puts them 31st. For reference that is below the Guardian, Roblox, Sportsbible and Pornhub as other examples. https://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/GB

    According to this top 20, the Daily Mail isn't in the Top 20: https://www.lexiconnect.co.uk/top-20-uk-websites.html
    https://www.theukdomain.uk/top-100-websites-of-2020/
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #5678
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It's not all that different; most newspapers are now read online, so any assessment of a newspaper's readership must include online visitors. Suffice to say the print circulation is the least informative metric if you're interested in readership.
    I completely agree it is the least informative, which is why I said it was a nonsense metric to be bringing up. Bringing up online traffic is much more logical.

    Your ranking list is quite different to other ones but shows the Mail as a fraction of eg Facebook etc and closer to the Guardian (which other rankings put it beneath). But its worth remembering the Mail's website is rather different to the paper. The paper's frontpage and basis operates primarily on outrage and being contrarian - the website dominates with celebrity gossip and clickbait. I'd be curious how many people actually get their news from that site rather than other sources.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #5679
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Saying its the most popular newspaper in the UK today is like talking about the most popular sunscreen in the UK (for January only).

    Most popular of nothing is still nothing. Do you think the Dail Fail readership is 50% of the country? 40%? 30? 20? 10? 5?

    No, its readership is well below 2% of country. Even the Lib Dems can get more than 2%.
    You're talking print media?

    What is this, 1995?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  10. #5680
    Well that was my point. Other websites are more popular, depending upon the rankings used. According to Alexa rankings the Guardian even is ahead of the Daily Mail.

    If it was the most popular website, or even news website, then that would be more significant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #5681
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    It's still a pretty popular one, and especially since you mention they specialize in clickbait, they presumably get shared a fair bit. Anecdotal, but I certainly regularly see headlines from them, while it's definitely not something I'd look for myself.

    Edit: though less often than news sites I do actually use. Not sure how Google's algorithms work.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  12. #5682
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  13. #5683
    While there are some teething issues take with a pinch of salt anything Scottish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #5684
    Yes, you have made your Little Englander distrust of people with accents abundantly clear already, no need to repeat yourself.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #5685
    Yes that's it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #5686
    What the Scottish project fear brigade fail to understand is that the fish are now happier being British.

  17. #5687
    Really sad to hear about the Welsh sea critters too.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #5688
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    What the Scottish project fear brigade fail to understand is that the fish are now happier being British.
    They probably are actually if there's not as many trawlers about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #5689
    Pigs' heads rotting in Rotterdam. Meanwhile...

    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  20. #5690
    Those two headlines don't relate to each other, separate issues. Not seen anyone report issues with what Boris said that about (NI -> GB trade).

    Some teething issues right now, to be expected, it will roll out of the system eventually. No big deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #5691
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Those two headlines don't relate to each other, separate issues. Not seen anyone report issues with what Boris said that about (NI -> GB trade).

    Some teething issues right now, to be expected, it will roll out of the system eventually. No big deal.
    Well, actually they are related because the rules apply to exports of good from GB to NI.
    Congratulations America

  22. #5692
    The quote was to NI manufacturers trading to GB, not GB to NI. Read the subtitle of the first one.

    Here's an original article over a year old: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...checked-brexit

    "PM says there will be no checks on goods going from Northern Ireland to rest of UK"
    "The video, shot on Thursday night in Northern Ireland, showed him reassuring worried exporters they will not have to fill in customs declarations when they send goods across the Irish Sea. In answer to a question from an exporter about whether his business would have to complete extra forms, Johnson said: “You will absolutely not.”"

    Unless something has been missed that has been honoured. The EU is demanding paperwork when it goes into NI or the Single Market, but as far as I know there's no issues going the other direction.

    NI -> GB != GB -> NI
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #5693
    'Absolute Carnage': EU hauliers reject UK jobs over Brexit rules

    Freight company director blames new requirement for EU transport firms to provide VAT and tariff guarantees

    A British freight company director with more than over 20 years’ experience has told how EU hauliers and transport companies are turning their backs on UK business because they are being asked to provide tens of thousands of pounds in guarantees to cover VAT or potential tariffs on arrival in Britain.

    The financial guarantee requirement did not exist before Brexit and EU transport companies who previously provided a shipping service for small and medium-sized firms have decided they do not want the extra financial burden, according to Colin Jeffries, who runs Key Cargo International in Manchester.

    “We’ve got people that are trying to bring textiles in from Italy but we are being told there is no haulage availability on that. Nobody’s willing to touch anything because of these guarantees. In Poland, we’re trying to get masks in for PPE in the workplace and we can’t get anyone to bring them over.”

    Jeffries, who has been in the freight forwarding business for 24 years, said his business nearly came to a standstill last week because of the sudden trade barriers erected on 1 January.

    He said it was “absolute carnage out there” trying to get EU hauliers to come to Britain, because they underestimated the gravity of the financial guarantees, known as T1s, that now apply to goods being exported to the UK.

    A truck with a £200,000 cargo would need cash or a T1 financial guarantee document for £40,000 in VAT alone, he said, a significant burden for transport companies with multiple trucks going to the UK.

    Before Brexit these guarantees were not required for goods coming from the EU.

    “Many agents who are completing T1s have run out of guarantee funds, which they need to have in place,” he added.

    He spoke as data showed that an increasing number of freight groups rejected contracts to move goods from France to Britain in the second week of January.

    Transporeon, a German software company that works with 100,000 logistics service providers, said freight forwarders had rejected jobs to move goods from Germany, Italy and Poland into Britain.

    In the second week of January the rejection rate for transport to the UK was up 168% on the third quarter of 2020 and had doubled in the first calendar week of the year.

    Jeffries said one of the problems was how complicated exporting to the UK had become.

    While goods could sail through British ports before Brexit, now EU suppliers, like the UK exporters, had to provide a panoply of paperwork before export in addition to the T1 financial guarantee.

    Apart from the customs declaration and the T1 financial guarantee they have to provide a Rex (registered exporter system) document to certify the origin of the product, which will determine whether tariffs will apply on entry to the UK or whether they are subject to preferential treatment.

    Jeffries also hit out at the government for its repeated refrain to businesses instructing them to go to freight forwarders or customs agents to prepare them for Brexit.

    “They haven’t issued freight forwarders with a magic book,” he said. “A lot of people think we have inside knowledge because the government says go to a freight forwarder or customs agent. But we haven’t been given any insight. We are researching this like everyone else and like everyone you can only gain access to some systems from 1 January so you had no time to test systems until it went live.”
    These financial guarantees ... are not teething problems.

    These are financial burdens which now exist that did not before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  24. #5694
    Yes they're teething issues, people are getting used to the new system. The final paragraph is literally talking about how its new.

    People will get used to it ultimately and a new equilibrium will be reached.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #5695
    My ETA clarifies, I am referring to the guarantees. Introduction of a new financial guarantee or cash equivalent introduces a significant new financial overhead to hauliers, that did not exist before. To the tune of 20% of all freighted cost to cover UK VAT.

    This is not teething. This is a new requirement going forward. It's teething to overcome the administrative and financial scramble to get used to the new requirement.

    And a huge amount of capital each firm would need to have permanently in reserve if they wish to export to the UK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  26. #5696
    Yes it does. Though people will get used to it. It is the shock of it now that people are getting used to. Rest of the world trade already deals with this doesn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #5697
    So therefore the EU now has a more expensive overhead to export to the UK that it did not have before ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  28. #5698
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Those two headlines don't relate to each other, separate issues. Not seen anyone report issues with what Boris said that about (NI -> GB trade).

    Some teething issues right now, to be expected, it will roll out of the system eventually. No big deal.
    Pretty sure it was for comedic effect, but also pretty sure there's a grain of truth to it.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  29. #5699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    These financial guarantees ... are not teething problems.

    These are financial burdens which now exist that did not before.
    Is this the same set of rules that makes retailers everywhere not want to service the British market?

    This system has a stink to it; it cuts out a lot of competition and leaves the consumer at the mercy of whoever has cornered the market for a type of product in Britain. Ripp-off Britain on the way back in ?
    Congratulations America

  30. #5700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    So therefore the EU now has a more expensive overhead to export to the UK that it did not have before ...
    You expect him to admit something that doesn't coincide with his Brexiteer convictions? His master has said it's teething problems, so it's teething problems and damn anybody saying anything else. I agree with you it's not a teething problem, it is a strong impediment on trade between - at least - the UK and the EU.
    Especially in this time of crisis nobody is going to stick significant money in UK coffers while they need the same money for day-to-day survival.
    Congratulations America

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