Political Food?

[GGT]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist this. It's just too....too much effete-juici-Ness. Food for Thought:

At Vegans’ Weddings, Beef or Tofu?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/fa...n.html?_r=1&hp


I've been involved in Political Food for a while now, but not at this level, where politicians see their million-dollar shin dig as political food.

Ask anyone who works at soup kitchens or charitable pantries, what they think Political Food means.

Should I laugh or cry?

[GGT]

Since I am the only current member on line, allow me to talk to myself. Holler when you want.

At first, this tripe sounded like news aimed at the frenzy around the closest thing to a royal wedding most Americans would witness. But then it was all around, in newspapers and magazines, on television, gossip in the grocery store, going viral on the web with the fucking twittering twits.

My sister is a fanatical vegan, so I know what that's like. (Bees make honey for their hive, not for humans.)

Must have been over two decades ago that we had a Tofurkey on Thanksgiving, in her honor. She thought it was great, my ex thought it was novel, I thought it was fucking stupid. My position hasn't changed much over the years. I might even have gone anti-vegan by working with poor and hungry people over the years. Getting protein from legumes isn't as easy as it sounds, if you take out milk and eggs too. In fact, my sister has learned how hard it is to be well nourished as a vegan. She even took her own foods in a suitcase when she went to Austria. That's not something poor or hungry people can do, or concentrate on.

Political Food means something very different to most of the world, than serving beef or tofu at a luxurious wedding. Especially to the hungry or starving. While I appreciate the "political" maneuverings and accommodations Ms. Clinton made to remain true to her food beliefs and still make her guests feel comfortable, that kind of Political isn't my kind of Political. Not when it comes to Political Food.

As Russia burns and loses her wheat fields, and the US smiles at our surplus, THAT is political food. The price of a loaf of bread. Hungry people who struggle to bring home nothing more than bread. Or craving any grain they can mash and cook. Competing with live stock grain feed, or biofuel for first world consumers. THAT is political food. Not beef or tofu for a vegan's multi-million dollar wedding. No matter how VIP they're made out to be, or how politically correct they think they are.

[NGS]

I think it's ridiculous that vegans would completely restrict their guests food choices by eliminating meat. Shit, the bride and groom have their meal plan, why worry about forcing your crap on everyone else. Be courteous and not a dick. When I get married I'm not gonna say no one can eat citrus fruits just because I don't like em. It's selfish and there's no need for vegans to make a deal out of it.

[Flixy]

I think it's ridiculous that vegans would completely restrict their guests food choices by eliminating meat. Shit, the bride and groom have their meal plan, why worry about forcing your crap on everyone else. Be courteous and not a dick. When I get married I'm not gonna say no one can eat citrus fruits just because I don't like em. It's selfish and there's no need for vegans to make a deal out of it.

It's their wedding, so why can't they? Not like it's a burden to eat without meat for one single day in your life. I like meat, but I won't mind if I get served food without meat. Hell, I also like fish, but I would not complain if a wedding didn't serve fish, would you?

And this is a pretty good quote:

“If you go to an Indian wedding, you don’t expect Italian food”

[Dattu]

It's their wedding, so it's their choice entirely. Accept what they serve, especially if they're footing the bill. Comparing citrus aversion to veganism doesn't make much sense. Animal exploitation/abuse doesn't have a plant analog emotionally speaking.

[Nessus]

It's interesting how militant people have become about the idea that every meal should always contain meat, preferably from a dead mammal. This was not the case for a vast majority of people for the majority of human history; where did the sense of necessity come from?

[littlelolligagged]

having meat = sign of wealth

[Nessus]

Maybe once, but I doubt young people see it that way anymore, dead flesh is cheap and everywhere

[littlelolligagged]

Yeah, they got in the idea from their parents, who either personally remember war/depression/poverty years or learned it from their parents.


You'd think they would have picked up the value of conserving, but instead have the idea that they have to prove to themselves or the world that they are past all that. And then after a generation or two of daily meat it becomes an actual habit.

[Nessus]

True.

As for the second bit, current science indicates we live in the worst possible universe

[Aimless]

I think it's mostly because it's cool to hate on vegans.

[Illusions]

I think it's mostly because it's cool to hate on vegans.

The amount of times I've had vegetarianism or veganism shoved in my face is probably below Scientology but above Judaism. It gets annoying really fast.

[Nessus]

I think it's mostly because it's cool to hate on vegans.

Well I don't like evangelizing vegans either, but is that sufficient motivation to behave as if consuming the flesh of the unliving is a moral high ground? I suppose it might be, in the same mindless sense that not uttering the Lord's name in vain is a moral high ground. Hm.

[littlelolligagged]

I can't say I've ever met an evangelical vegan/vegetarian.

Are you going into vegetarian restaurants gnawing on a huge chunk of rare steak or something, Snoisulli?

[Nessus]

I can't say I've ever met an evangelical vegan/vegetarian.

I'd assume they'd get shot in Georgee!

[Ominous Gamer]

It's interesting how militant people have become about the idea that every meal should always contain meat, preferably from a dead mammal.

I think the article goes beyond this. The people they focused on were diehard vegans. No meat would be the easy road, you could even pawn it off as a sort of wedding theme. But these people are extreme, nothing that is the result of an animal. No honey, no dairy, nothing. They even opted to go without real flowers.

While I don't expect to find Italian food at an Indian wedding, I also expect the hosts to understand not everyone is as batshit insane as they are, and that extreme ethnic dishes don't have a place when you're out of your element. I don't go to a Vietnamese wedding held in downtown and expect to be served only salted seaweed soup.

Then again, if these friends were close enough to be invited to a wedding, and expected to be gift bearing, they should have known the bride and groom were likely to pull something like this.

[Illusions]

I can't say I've ever met an evangelical vegan/vegetarian.

Are you going into vegetarian restaurants gnawing on a huge chunk of rare steak or something, Snoisulli?

I live in New York, used to commute to NYC for work, and would often be passing through Columbia or NYU campuses...that pretty much explains it all.

[Flixy]

I think the article goes beyond this. The people they focused on were diehard vegans. No meat would be the easy road, you could even pawn it off as a sort of wedding theme. But these people are extreme, nothing that is the result of an animal. No honey, no diary, nothing. They even opted to go without real flowers.

While I don't expect to find Italian food at an Indian wedding, I also expect the hosts to understand not everyone is as batshit insane as they are, and that extreme ethnic dishes don't have a place when you're out of your element. I don't go to a Vietnamese wedding held in downtown and expect to be served only salted seaweed soup.

Then again, if these friends were close enough to be invited to a wedding, and expected to be gift bearing, they should have known the bride and groom were likely to pull something like this.

So what? As long as the food is tasty, who gives a damn what is in it. It's one day, come on. The problem with 'extreme ethnic dishes' may be that the guests don't like the taste, or it is too spicy, something like that. As long as you serve food that is tasty, who cares what's in it. And why should every meal include honey, dairy, or meat? Is it that horrible if you miss out on it for one evening? The guy from the article who snuck out to get a sandwich with meat is just pathetic, if you ask me.

Also, I know a lot of vegetarians (including my sister), but they never 'shoved it in my face'. Besides making vegetarian food when I'm eating at their place, of course.

[Ominous Gamer]

The problem with 'extreme ethnic dishes' may be that the guests don't like the taste, or it is too spicy, something like that. As long as you serve food that is tasty, who cares what's in it.

I don't find these sentences fully compatible.

[Nessus]

I think the article goes beyond this. The people they focused on were diehard vegans. No meat would be the easy road, you could even pawn it off as a sort of wedding theme. But these people are extreme, nothing that is the result of an animal. No honey, no diary, nothing. They even opted to go without real flowers.

While I don't expect to find Italian food at an Indian wedding, I also expect the hosts to understand not everyone is as batshit insane as they are, and that extreme ethnic dishes don't have a place when you're out of your element. I don't go to a Vietnamese wedding held in downtown and expect to be served only salted seaweed soup.

Then again, if these friends were close enough to be invited to a wedding, and expected to be gift bearing, they should have known the bride and groom were likely to pull something like this.

I don't have a diary either!

[Ominous Gamer]

blah, its usually my left hand thats a tad to fast

[Flixy]

I don't find these sentences fully compatible.

It was supposed to be a reasno why what you called 'extreme ethnic food' is not always a good idea at a wedding, but vegetarian food isn't really a problem.

[Ominous Gamer]

Its still a poor point, you can't write off ethnic food as "something like that" without using the same againist a vegan diet. Not everyone shares the same diet, or tastes, as vegans should damn well know. For example, I personally think Tofu tastes like paper, and Boca burgers are nothing worth writing home about.

[Illusions]

Trillions of light years away on an alternate Earth...

So what? As long as the food is tasty, who gives a damn what is in it. It's one day, come on. The problem with 'extreme ethnic dishes' may be that the guests don't like the taste, or it is too spicy, something like that. As long as you serve food that is tasty, who cares what's in it. And why should every meal include veggies, tofu, or soy? Is it that horrible if you miss out on it for one evening? The guy from the article who snuck out to get a salad without meat is just pathetic, if you ask me.

Also, I know a lot of carnitarians (including my sister), but they never 'shoved it in my face'. Besides making carnitarian food when I'm eating at their place, of course.

...

[Flixy]

Trillions of light years away on an alternate Earth...



...

That's twisting it, and you know it. The point is that vegetarians don't eat meat, but meat eaters can eat vegetables. Besides that, vegetables actually are necessary staples of your diet.

Let me ask you a different question: would you object to a kosher dinner served at a wedding where the bride is jewish, but you're not?

And can any of you still give me one good reason why meat should be served, besides that you think it's tasty? And what makes meat more special than other tasty things? Like I said, I like fish, a lot, but I wouldn't complain if I was served a dinner without fish. Why is meat so much more special?

[Aimless]

Okay seriously Illusions do you know anyone who insists on eating meat for every meal due to politics or ideology?

[Illusions]

That's twisting it, and you know it. The point is that vegetarians don't eat meat, but meat eaters can eat vegetables. Besides that, vegetables actually are necessary staples of your diet.

Carnitarians of this alternate Earth aren't just meat eaters, they only eat the things that vegetarians/vegans refuse to eat, any other necessary dietary staples are made up with supplements in the same way vegetarians or vegans supplement their diet lacking meat.

Let me ask you a different question: would you object to a kosher dinner served at a wedding where the bride is jewish, but you're not?

Would it be a problem if at a regular wedding some of the guests were known to be vegans, or observed kosher dietary restrictions, and no meal options were prepared for such instances? Lets be frankly serious about this, you're making it out that the desires of a person who requires or would very much like to have meat during meals is somehow less relevant than a person who desires to only eat according to vegan or kosher rules. I do not find this reasoning to be logically consistent.

As a host it would be best to ensure that all of my guests have options for food that they would find enjoyable, within reason of course (sorry cannibals or people who enjoy dining on the finest and rarest of nearly extinct animals).

And can any of you still give me one good reason why meat should be served, besides that you think it's tasty?

What about veggies, or other vegan relative foods?

And what makes meat more special than other tasty things? Like I said, I like fish, a lot, but I wouldn't complain if I was served a dinner without fish. Why is meat so much more special?

Thats the thing. Its not. However I'm plenty sure I'd be seen as a rude host if I knew a vegan was coming to some event I was holding and all edible food consisted entirely of various animal products, with not a hint of vegan edible food in sight. Logical consistency would be nice here in your arguments. I'd just as much wither and die if I only had to eat vegetables for an evening, as would a vegan who had to have meat, or someone who observed kosher dietary restrictions eat a pulled-pork sandwich with a thick layer of cheese.

Okay seriously Illusions do you know anyone who insists on eating meat for every meal due to politics or ideology?

You're kind of pushing me to make one. I'm uncertain how this is necessary to the debate at hand though. You're somehow attributing extra specialness to someone's desire to do something simply because it might be politically or ideologically motivated, as opposed to a desire rooted in something else.

[Aimless]

You're kind of pushing me to make one. I'm uncertain how this is necessary to the debate at hand though. You're somehow attributing extra specialness to someone's desire to do something simply because it might be politically or ideologically motivated, as opposed to a desire rooted in something else.

Yes I most certainly am, how is this a problem? If someone has a moral or political stance against meat then I think it's perfectly legitimate for them to not have meat at their own damned wedding. If they should happen to have a friend who has a moral or political stance FOR meat at EVERY meal (and god knows why they'd have such a friend) then they shouldn't even invite that friend. If I believe that meat is

murder

then I don't see why the hell I'd be expected to condone meat-eating at my wedding.

[Illusions]

Yes I most certainly am, how is this a problem?

...because you're not explaining why it deserves to be treated in this manner.

[Aimless]

Because I think that "I think meat is yummy" is trivial compared to "I think meat is murder", and it's my wedding