Rational vs. rationalizing voters

[Loki]

Has he ever not taken at face value anything that makes conservatives or Republicans look bad?

[Khendraja'aro]

Has he ever not taken at face value anything that makes conservatives or Republicans look bad?

Let's be honest here: Conservatives/Republicans actually don't need that much help in the "looking bad"-department.

As such, taking such things at face value is completely rational.

[Nessus]

Has he ever not taken at face value anything that makes conservatives or Republicans look bad?

I don't see what that has to do with the question at hand.

[EyeKhan]

I'm curious what you would think is strange. Alas the government kept me in DC.

Free lunch? Who said you would have paid?

Well, I invited you so I would feel best if I bought. Never mind your curiosity. And yes you are very odd. You were odd before your right turn. After, just a compounding.

[EyeKhan]

I thought he was being sarcastic. Or would that be sardonic?

Both maybe?

So I make this comment that I'm having a personal crisis because the map suggests the lesser educated vote republican and the more educated democrat while this article suggests the more educated have a lesser understanding of what is going on. Then I declare I am going to reevaluate my beliefs for a couple years, without expressly saying, but meaning, that is because I feel my understanding of politics might be completely wrong because I tend to vote democrat and I am educated. Sad I have to break it down like that.... Now, Loki reads this and after a characteristic attack based apparently on no understanding of what i wrote or ability to comprehend the humor, he goes on to complain that I take everything at face value. So he must really think I will be reevaluating my politics for the next few years, leaning more toward accepting conservative ideology because of the map content and the content of the OP article. And I take things at face value too much.

[Loki]

Both maybe?

So I make this comment that I'm having a personal crisis because the map suggests the lesser educated vote republican and the more educated democrat while this article suggests the more educated have a lesser understanding of what is going on.

It does no such thing. You attack me for supposedly not seeing through your humor, but then you make the exact point for which I attacked you.

Nessus, do I need more evidence for the claim I made earlier?

[Khendraja'aro]

It does no such thing. You attack me for supposedly not seeing through your humor, but then you make the exact point for which I attacked you.

Nessus, do I need more evidence for the claim I made earlier?

If we're thinking of the same map, it does indeed allow for thinking just that. Because that's what I first thought when I saw that map, too.

You do know that "suggest" does not mean "prove"?

[Loki]

If we're thinking of the same map, it does indeed allow for thinking just that. Because that's what I first thought when I saw that map, too.

You do know that "suggest" does not mean "prove"?

Your burden of proof for "suggest" must be "believe what I want to believe". No, it doesn't suggest anything. Unless a higher support for the KKK in black-majority areas "suggest" that blacks supported the KKK. Again, look up the ecological fallacy.

[Dreadnaught]

Yeah, I don't think splitting hairs on "suggest" really resolves things. If you post it, snicker and say that the map "suggests" anything, it sounds like you're pretty hooked on the chart itself.

[Nessus]

Nessus, do I need more evidence for the claim I made earlier?

For which purpose? The man himself could adopt or disapprove of your earlier statements and none of those would matter a whim, for without the CIA we cannot read minds and declare some statements more innocent than others. If you wish to rain condemnation on Chaloobi, you hardly need my permission to do so, but insofar as he's not on a slab for me to study, do not expect the scientist in me to agree or disagree with your church pew politics.

[Aimless]

er. this is one of those situations where putting on a different pair of glasses would help you realise the other guy isn't a crook. anyway that map was clearly used to plant that very idea into people's heads. hence the high entertainment value

[Aimless]

you know, at worst chaloobi allowed himself to be taken in by a line of fallacious (and thoroughly satisfying) reasoning. that is neither unusual nor evil/criminal/unforgivable. HENCE THE EXISTENCE OF A WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE CONTAINING CLASSIC ILLUSTRATIVE EXAMPLES. given your past failures in the field of socialised gamma knives perhaps you can excuse this one

[Loki]

you know, at worst chaloobi allowed himself to be taken in by a line of fallacious (and thoroughly satisfying) reasoning. that is neither unusual nor evil/criminal/unforgivable. HENCE THE EXISTENCE OF A WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE CONTAINING CLASSIC ILLUSTRATIVE EXAMPLES. given your past failures in the field of socialised gamma knives perhaps you can excuse this one

Funny that he falls for fallacious reasoning only when it makes people he dislikes look bad. And he does this after I mentioned the ecological fallacy about 3 times (and several other people said something similar).

[EyeKhan]

Loki why do you have to be such a throbbing cock all the time? Jesus fucking christ - if you're this way in person who the fuck can suffer to be in the same room with you??? And Minx why do you lend this dumbassery any legitimacy at all???? And Dread, fuck, this is just more of the what-the-fuck-happened-to-the-Dread-I-once-thought-deserved-uncommon-respect lunacy that has me posting I find you flatly inscruitable. Please all of you accept my invitation to go fuck yourselves for your self-pleasuring and give up this pretending I believe Red Staters are uneducated morons so they vote McCain / Palin. Believe ME, I think you have to be a moron to have voted McCain Palin. No doubt. But plenty of educated people did it and plenty of ignorant morons didn't. I know some of both groups by name. The FUN that was my post was the irony that the chart Nessus posted that was intended to give the impression - dare I say suggest a relationship???? Oh fuck, not another hair fucking splitting fucking semantic argument to stretch your attack tighter than your bald ball sack! - that the ignorant are Red and the Educated are Blue fit so cleanly and elegantly with this article that purports, suggests, claims, produces research to indicate, whatever the fuck words you want to use, that Educated People generally don't know what the fuck is going on vis a vis politics. How fucking beautiful because the FUN is that if you take BOTH at FACE VALUE just for the fucking fun of it, and if you think of yourself as correctly liberal minded and all you conservative fuck wads as callous self-destructive anti-patriotic idiots, as I generally do, then you have to say, on face value, what the fuck? Am I completely befuddled? Are the Tea Baggers right? Is Palin really the right idiot for the job?

SO PLEASE LOKI, DON'T READ THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH AND POST SOMETHING ELSE TO ATTACK ME THAT DOESN'T IN FACT RELATE TO ANYTHING I ACTUALLY MEANT. REALLY, IT SAYS STUFF ABOUT WHAT AN ASSHOLE YOU CAN BE AND I KNOW YOU'RE NOT MUCH INTO INTROSPECTION. JUST CARRY ON.

[Loki]

Dehumanizing people you disagree with is fun, isn't it?

[EyeKhan]

You might find it so. But I disagree with lots of people all the time and I don't attempt to dehumanize them. Now, if you're talking about that last post of mine, its not about a disagreement and its not about dehumanization. This is a game you like to play, we all know it, though you can continue to pretend otherwise, since that's part of the game. As too is baiting me, attacking and generally doing what you enjoy most. And I described these actions of yours, this personality or character you display, as it appears. You might feel dehumanized, but well maybe that's that little prickling of doubt in the back of your mind, that bit of "am I really a dick?" you get once in a while that you surely must stamp out and ignore immediately. No, if this was simply you disagreeing with me over whether there really are WMDs somewhere in Iraq, it would be a pleasure to bandy it about. But this is really about you fucking with me for fun and me calling you the dick that you are - stimulus / response.

[Dreadnaught]

Jesus. I point out that it's difficult to tell joking around from a smug sense of superiority and we get rantsrantsrants.

[Nessus]

Dehumanizing people you disagree with is fun, isn't it?

You keep saying things like this, but most of the time we're just posting neutral facts about the GOP; it's hardly the fault of the left that Pubbies behave like mustache-twirling caricatures of evil people.

[Nessus]

Jesus. I point out that it's difficult to tell joking around from a smug sense of superiority and we get rantsrantsrants.

I suspect it might have do with the fundamental differences between the motivations of the the respective parties, but this'd evoke a rantrantrant from Low-key instead, so

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thread delivers.

[Aimless]

oi you dingdong did YOU just tell ME to fuck off? in my thread?? that's just bad manners

[Khendraja'aro]

Your burden of proof for "suggest" must be "believe what I want to believe". No, it doesn't suggest anything. Unless a higher support for the KKK in black-majority areas "suggest" that blacks supported the KKK. Again, look up the ecological fallacy.

When we have two maps, showing an almost equal distribution of binary choices, without further comment as to what they're meant to be, then they actually do suggest/imply/insinuate such a correlation.

It may be a fallacy. Doesn't mean that it's not rational to believe in said fallacy. After all, such fallacies stem from actual logical thoughts - even if the train of thought leading the the fallacy is mislead due to ignorance of contrary facts.

You seem to have a warped outlook on what exactly constitutes "rationality".

Take the Monty Hall problem: If you don't have a background on stochastics, is it really irrational to assume that switching does not matter?

[Aimless]

I think he simply attributes omniscience/rationality and ignorance/insanity respectively based on whatever's most expedient and fits with his agenda of discrediting/punishing anyone he doesn't like. in this case chaloobi knew what he was doing and was therefore being deliberately evil. FOR SHAME! but another day chaloobi wouldn't know what he was doing and would therefore be unforgivably stupid or clearly too crazy to merit any consideration. damned if you do, damned if you don't. you can't win. might as well keep beating your wife. this is a common and especially evil way to bully people. it's like a drug. it's like rocking at Mortal Kombat. once you start dishing out unvoidable punishment, you're hooked

as loki himself pointed out, dehumanising your opponent is FUN. he knows. that's why his posts in this thread are especially egregious. he's doing all of this with the express intent to bait and attack, fully understanding the irony and the hypocrisy of doing so and no doubt enjoying the added frustration that causes.

[Aimless]

but fortunately there are few things more shaming than being caught masturbating by your classmates. all pleasures are a little guilty for us unworthy humans who've earned nothing but the right to suffer, but this probably the guiltiest pleasure of them all. the jig is up, the fig is down

[Dreadnaught]

You keep saying things like this, but most of the time we're just posting neutral facts about the GOP; it's hardly the fault of the left that Pubbies behave like mustache-twirling caricatures of evil people.

Just posting "neutral facts"? Come on, don't be silly. You think left-wingers don't have caricatures? People here just choose not to post them.

[Loki]

You keep saying things like this, but most of the time we're just posting neutral facts about the GOP; it's hardly the fault of the left that Pubbies behave like mustache-twirling caricatures of evil people.

Funny that Chaloobi goes on flaming rants, and none of the lefties here are willing to tell him to stop. He says things that are clearly inaccurate, yet none of you are willing to admit he was wrong. And yet when any right-winger does either, you all go after him.

[Nessus]

Funny that neither of you chose to engage Minx's thoughts

[Nessus]

Just posting "neutral facts"? Come on, don't be silly. You think left-wingers don't have caricatures? People here just choose not to post them.

This post has little common narrative among its sentences, and yet another reason why I find you so perplexing.

I and others here have been assaulted by Loki et al. for posting what are factual reports on what the GOP is doing. If it had been one of the members on "the left" who had posted the thread on Trump, Loki's behaviour would have been wildly different, as would have yours been.

Where did I say left-wingers don't have caricatures? It's just hard to see the side fighting for human rights as the silly one, no matter how many anti-union cartoons you post in the silly images thread. I do find it telling that you're posting what is essentially an accusation of poor behaviour on the political left here; if only we behaved, your side would treat us kinder? If only we didn't post all those embarrassingly anti-establishment things Walker is up to, we could have reasonable discourse here? You don't get to ignore the heinous things your side of the aisle commits any more than the Stalinists get to ignore the Holodomor!

[Nessus]

Funny that Chaloobi goes on flaming rants, and none of the lefties here are willing to tell him to stop. He says things that are clearly inaccurate, yet none of you are willing to admit he was wrong. And yet when any right-winger does either, you all go after him.

And how often is it that you rush to correct our main right-wing ideologue, Lewkowski?

The game with you, Loki, for years has been that you don't lie consistently, you just lie enough. I think the reverse works just as well to this new cocoon persona of yours; we have to give sources you agree with to each and every claim and argument, whereas you are free to cry and bitch about every single thing under the Sun without citing a thing. You demand angelic perfection from your foes all the while accepting and arguing for the demonic behaviour of your own, and I have a hard time thinking the irony isn't being appreciated there. That does, however, leave open the question why we, or Chaloobi himself, should articulate himself with better precision when either way he will be met by the horse-shit you and Dreadnaught incessantly post. Is there any left-wing argument that could ever satisfy you? The answer is no. So we can have a jolly time laughing at the mustache-twirling antics of the GOP, and you can get upset by it, but who is being more dishonest there?

[Khendraja'aro]

Funny that neither of you chose to engage Minx's thoughts

Hey, Loki also does not deign to answer questions addressed at him, so there.