I wonder how many sane people consider a 14-year-old having sex with a 19-year-old an example of "childhood experimentation".Originally Posted by GGT
I wonder how many sane people consider a 14-year-old having sex with a 19-year-old an example of "childhood experimentation".
Hope is the denial of reality
in yemen?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Case dependent. Or would you rather brand every 19 yr old a sexual predator, just to fit in your tight moral compartment?
What about if the person was 13? Or 12? After all, the 13-year-old could be one day off from being 14.
Hope is the denial of reality
then it would perhaps be legal one day and illegal the next. i thought you understood that the legal limits are arbitrary. now the real question is whether or not an older partner would be a monster one day and not a monster the next.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Well 13 can't be monstrous because a 13-year-old could be one day from being 14. And then 12 can't be monstrous because a 12-year-old can be a day from being 13. And we can work all the way down to toddlers.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yeah, what if?I'm saying it's ridiculous to create laws strictly by age cut-offs. You said a case-by-case analysis wouldn't work, but that's exactly what is needed.
According to you (and several state laws) it's considered sexual assault if a couple of 5 yr olds are in the bathtub together....and start squealing in delight when one sticks their toes in the other one's vaginal/penile/anal regions. Or turns the shower head dial to 'pulsating', and plays around with that with their shower partner.
Gosh, it must be horrible that little kids can find genital pleasures in the bathtub or shower....some nefarious motive must be present! We should outlaw these behaviors at once!
That's plainly normal kid stuff, slightly "sexual" stuff, and nothing related to abuse whatsoever.
we could if we still believed that slippery slope arguments are the pinnacle of reasoning, like we did in ninth grade. but alternatives may be more useful. an adult actually having sex with a prepubescent child may have a problematic psychiatric condition, for example, so we might call him "sick" and put him in psychiatric care.
my point in the last post was that you'd do well to disentangle legality from the sort of moral judgement that underlies the labeling of a person as a monster. If you don't you'll be stuck with morality that is as arbitrary as your laws.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Ggt, a case by case approach is both impractical and potentially dangerous. those disadvantages should be weighed against whatever we imagine would be the benefits. i think the benefits would be completely offset by the harms
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'm personally not in the habit of labeling anyone a monster. Obviously others are. It makes for a more comfortable way to compartmentalize life. Good luck with that....
We agree, with a caveat. Parents should at least be informed enough that "normal" childhood sex-play isn't automatically considered "abnormal", let alone perverted or exploitative or assaulting. Case-by-case should begin in the home, with parents and caretakers paying attention. Not just running to the police to file charges because Sally says someone rubbed her bum in the bathtub.
it's probably not his favourite pastime either, he just does it to try to establish dominance in these conflicts. it is tiresome, although in all fairness i must admit i do it too and often probably for the same reason.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
His and He, whom do you mean?
In today's paranoid environment, we all might be considered either a victim or a perpetrator. Depending on bath tubs or swimming pools, locker rooms or family rooms. Not much room for "normal sexual experimentation" if everyone is either a victim or a predator.
That's sad. That's unhealthy.
i think it's clear that the discussion so far has been focused on adults having sex with kids rather than about five year olds molesting each other. those brats can't go to jail
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Nothing in this thread is "clear". Kids can be quasi-adults or soon-to-be-adults. Kids can be tiny babies or toddlers. Kids can mean teenagers, pre-post puberty and anything in between.
We've spent more time defining what a kid-child means, than defining what an adult means.
I think that's a major flaw in how we've constructed our laws.
That depends, do 14 year-olds count as people, and if they want to have sex with someone over 18, do we still consider them sane?
I'll pose a similar question to you that I did Lewk. When you were 14, you never thought about having sex with someone over 18? Did you not go through puberty, or were all of your fantasies reserved for people your own age?
. . .
Some 14 year olds must have been looking up statistics related to their sexual thoughts, giving them titles and mapping them on quadrants with algebraic functions, instead of acting on their natural and normal sexual desires.
Let's cut this one down the middle. Make every 14-year-old choose, on their birthday, whether they're going to fuck the town clerk or not. If not, label them sick, and slap them into the sex offender list.
No? How about the other way round then?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
According to me? Really? Am I a voice in your head now?Yeah, what if?
According to you (and several state laws) it's considered sexual assault if a couple of 5 yr olds are in the bathtub together....and start squealing in delight when one sticks their toes in the other one's vaginal/penile/anal regions. Or turns the shower head dial to 'pulsating', and plays around with that with their shower partner.
Gosh, it must be horrible that little kids can find genital pleasures in the bathtub or shower....some nefarious motive must be present! We should outlaw these behaviors at once!
That's plainly normal kid stuff, slightly "sexual" stuff, and nothing related to abuse whatsoever.
You're missing the part where the crime is committed by the adult, not the child.There are 10-year-olds that want to have sex with people that are older than 18. Would you be ok with such a relationship?
Hope is the denial of reality
Why is it wrong?
Because its illegal.
Why is it illegal?
Because its wrong.
. . .
No, but you glanced over the "you (and several state laws)" part?. It's kinda creepy that you'd even suggest you're a voice in my head. Narcissism?
Would you be okay with laws created around sexual fantasy?You're missing the part where the crime is committed by the adult, not the child.
It is wrong because the child does not have the mental capacity to fully appreciate the consequences of their actions, while the adult is knowingly engaging in sexual activities with someone they know is lacking in such faculties. Given your own logic, why is it wrong for a 10-year-old to have sex with a 19-year-old? Let's assume the 10-year-old initiates.
Would you be ok with a higher price of raspberries? Your questions are so far removed from anything I've written that I have to assume that you're either delusional or trolling.
Hope is the denial of reality
Glad to see you're willing to prosecute/punish 19 yr old American soldiers in Bangkok.
Bullshit. You are the first one to put the price of raspberries on par with sexual behavior. Wipe the jam off with your snarky smile.Would you be ok with a higher price of raspberries? Your questions are so far removed from anything I've written that I have to assume that you're either delusional or trolling.
You should reconsider this blanket bias of yours. We've had several Downs Syndrome (or mentally challenged) couples demanding fair treatment under the law. The right to flirt, mess around sexually, fall in love, get married, copulate, have children. They knew quite well what they were doing, even in their diminished mental capacity. Assistance from parents or social services might help, but only in concrete manners of child safety (cribs, car seats, highchairs, choking hazards). There's no federal or state protocol defining love. Love isn't just for "smart" or educated people.
I'm just going to say that reading comprehension is a useful skill that some here have yet to master.
Hope is the denial of reality
Ah yes, the professor professing about mental capacity. Dissing others for not thinking logically. That's always as good trap for adversaries, without any actual proof. Just make a declarative statement about intelligence, reading skills, research skills. Second choice is calling readers outright stupid.
I'd be more than glad to pay a higher price for local raspberries. It probably wouldn't mean much more than a few cents per quart. I may even agree to pick raspberries like we picked strawberries or elderberries.....using our labor and sweat.Would you be ok with a higher price of raspberries? Your questions are so far removed from anything I've written that I have to assume that you're either delusional or trolling.
Maybe this thread should have been titled, "Why do we prosecute humans?"
Why should the US continue to "pardon animals" in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia...Palestinians and Israelis.
Why should we keep sending billions of dollars in "Aid" to designated countries every year? Haven't we learned that picking sides can backfire?
Isn't it enough that we pay OPEC every time we fill up our gas tanks? Wouldn't that make most of us animals...stuck in real life, paying higher prices for a venti mocha latte at Starbucks?
So who is the animal and who needs a pardon?
Wait! What? Hold on! As a 14 year old Freshman, I dated (and had sex with) a 19 year old senior! Should he be on a permanent sex offenders registry because of it? He didn't coerce me or force me in any way. I was a willing participant!
Oh yeah, I forgot. I grew up in the stone age when it was still legal to have fun. You know, back before there was a law regulating every little fucking thing! Or if it wasn't quite legal, but not very bad, it was mostly overlooked!
I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
Atari bullshit refugee!!
Actually, you should know that a 19 years old cannot appreciate the full consequences of his actions as well. Has something to do with the fact that the frontal lobe is not fully developed until the age of 25.
Which is also reflected in car accident statistics, for example.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
munch, it's true we grew up in different times. As 14 yr olds we felt both protected and free. That concept may blow a few people's minds here......
Rather paradoxical that the Information Age has made parents and legislators more tight assed than ever. So worried about one kid, or a few kids, making the "wrong choices" that it leads to sweeping prohibitive laws regarding normal sex-play.
If I had the team and resources, I might conduct a study on this.....how it relates to men asking for Viagra or Cialis.
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