Who Creates Jobs?

[Dreadnaught]

Our tax code may be broken, but not for our example (selling Apple stock at 15% capital gains tax) to start a business or spend profits, putting that money back into the economy in a million other ways.

And (since you claimed in another thread that we don't really have party leadership) who are the political leadership "demonizing business"? We have hugely pro-business attitudes, with legislation that business leaders and lobbyists helped write.

Except Obama wants to raise the capital gains tax on said Apple stock.

And my point about leadership is that our political parties are diffuse and given to handing a lot of power to individual members. The folks like Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader are subject to the whims of their legislative body. We all remember what happened to Newt. The exception is when a part controls the White House. The President does set the agenda more than a party leader can. Saying that Bachman is a "leader" of the GOP is simply false.

[GGT]

Except Obama wants to raise the capital gains tax on said Apple stock.

Might make sense, especially for HFT and day traders that make profits by holding for seconds or minutes. Not even sure what the short-term rate is now. It's passive income and not like labor, anyway.

And my point about leadership is that our political parties are diffuse and given to handing a lot of power to individual members. The folks like Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader are subject to the whims of their legislative body. We all remember what happened to Newt. The exception is when a part controls the White House. The President does set the agenda more than a party leader can. Saying that Bachman is a "leader" of the GOP is simply false.

Recent events seem to show it's the Tea Party freshmen in charge of the house GOP, yankin' Boehner's chain.

[GGT]

More on the Tea Party. They picked up lots of seats in the House of Representatives, because they ran on a platform of spending cuts and fiscal conservatism....as The Way to create jobs and growth. Right?

They've been in office since January 2010, almost 8 months now. First bills they introduced were related to social conservatism (DOMA, DADT, abortion, immigration). They filibustered almost every bill related to JOBS, including SBIR (small business innovation research). They won't support budget bills that include any revenue, because they interpret that as a violation of their "No Tax" pledge given to Norquist. They define "compromise" as a betrayal of their principles (instead of a prerequisite for governance).

They somehow manage to hamstring the entire GOP, Boehner more vulnerable than McConnell, but it's still obvious what's happened. Then what do they do when the debt ceiling negotiations fall apart, and the full faith and credit of the US is at stake? They add a constitutional amendment for balanced budgets, something that needs 2/3 of house and senate to approve and pass! Who are they kidding? Who ARE these yahoos, and why can't/won't the GOP "leadership" reel them in?

[Ominous Gamer]

That's not my judgement, its your governments.

The U3 has its uses, this thread is not one of them; and so far I haven't seen anyone from my government try to claim that a 9.2% unemployment rate means 90.8% employment and thus enough jobs for anyone who wants one bad enough. Only you've done that.

[GGT]

So where ARE the jobs? Even if one person lands employment, how many family members can that income support? Not by sending Western Union money orders over-seas or over the phone....but in sheltering and feeding relatives right here and now.

[Veldan Rath]

I've already answered in another thread.

[Enoch the Red]

They somehow manage to hamstring the entire GOP, Boehner more vulnerable than McConnell, but it's still obvious what's happened. Then what do they do when the debt ceiling negotiations fall apart, and the full faith and credit of the US is at stake? They add a constitutional amendment for balanced budgets, something that needs 2/3 of house and senate to approve and pass! Who are they kidding? Who ARE these yahoos, and why can't/won't the GOP "leadership" reel them in?

My God, a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget? A measure that resembles fiscal responsibility? In Washington?

You were right all along GGT. These Teabaggers are crazy.

[GGT]

My God, a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget? A measure that resembles fiscal responsibility? In Washington?

You were right all along GGT. These Teabaggers are crazy.

Our house and senate hasn't passed a budget in what, over two years? Now, please tell me how a constitutional amendment for a balanced federal budget would look any different than....continued gridlock, or the same shit we see now.

[Veldan Rath]

Yes the Dems passed on a budget while they were in power (both houses) so they could foist it off for political cover.

Maybe a requirement for a balanced budget would be the blunt instrument needed.

Or both parties are just a bunch of twats. And can't be trusted to run something so big...so maybe we should shrink it????

[GGT]

Or both parties are just a bunch of twats. And can't be trusted to run something so big...so maybe we should shrink it????

They're a bunch of twits. Something quite wrong with "professional politicians". How about term limits and campaign finance reform?

[Ominous Gamer]

can't be trusted to run something so big...so maybe we should shrink it????

How long you been waiting to use this line?

but lets start with some baby steps first. I suggest a shrinkage on punctuation.

[Enoch the Red]

Our house and senate hasn't passed a budget in what, over two years? Now, please tell me how a constitutional amendment for a balanced federal budget would look any different than....continued gridlock, or the same shit we see now.

Agreed. It's far too much to expect Congress to do actually do their job, let alone to do it well. That's why it's mind boggling that you keep looking to them to solve all of the countries woes. Sure, they can't be expected to pass a budget, let alone a sound budget, but by golly they'll be able to fix the healthcare system, poverty, social injustice; not to mention rheumatism, chilblains, inflammations, and everything else that ails you.

[GGT]

Agreed. It's far too much to expect Congress to do actually do their job, let alone to do it well. That's why it's mind boggling that you keep looking to them to solve all of the countries woes. Sure, they can't be expected to pass a budget, let alone a sound budget, but by golly they'll be able to fix the healthcare system, poverty, social injustice; not to mention rheumatism, chilblains, inflammations, and everything else that ails you.

What's your solution, Ghost? Have you called your US representative? Do you have Dick Lugar on speed dial?

[Veldan Rath]

They're a bunch of twits. Something quite wrong with "professional politicians". How about term limits and campaign finance reform?

I thought the Tea Partiers we a bunch of Freshmen and not professional politicians?

But I get your point.

I'm leery of Term Limits. It's gotten mixed reviews/results here in Maine (State legislature)...and I really do not like telling the Idiots in CA that they can't keep voting for Pelosi. I don't feel I have the right to do so.

[LittleFuzzy]

They're a bunch of twits. Something quite wrong with "professional politicians". How about term limits and campaign finance reform?

Term limits? I thought you didn't like lobbyists, and you similarly disliked non-elected interests being involved in writing legislation?

[GGT]

I was thinking of people like Byrd or Kennedy, the kind of guys that spend decades doing nothing but legislating and DIE in office. Jeeze, there's gotta be some balance there. Dontchathink?

[GGT]

Term limits? I thought you didn't like lobbyists, and you similarly disliked non-elected interests being involved in writing legislation?

Right, I don't like lobbyists buying legislation, and I don't like career politicians. They get too comfy together, scratching each other's backs. How was that not clear?

[Enoch the Red]

What's your solution, Ghost? Have you called your US representative? Do you have Dick Lugar on speed dial?

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

I've only ever voted for people who have campaigned on balanced budgets and sound fiscal policy. Rarely has that been an (R) or a (D).

[GGT]

I don't blame you for anything Not sure if you answered my question, though.....what's your solution for our problems? How can we create jobs?

[Veldan Rath]

Again...we (as in Government) don't.

[GGT]

Again...we (as in Government) don't.

How about we (as in Society) might?

[Veldan Rath]

Stop electing idiots and get Government out of the way of small business.

oh...and an educated electorate wouldn't hurt either.

[Enoch the Red]

I don't blame you for anything Not sure if you answered my question, though.....what's your solution for our problems? How can we create jobs?

If you want to create a job or jobs you have all the tools you need at your disposal. If you want to make jobs, you can. Why aren't you making jobs, GGT?

[GGT]

An educated electorate would mean some gummint involvement in public education, wouldn't it?

[GGT]

If you want to create a job or jobs you have all the tools you need at your disposal. If you want to make jobs, you can. Why aren't you making jobs, GGT?

Pfft. Same thing I've asked about mega-corps and Big Business. They don't have to because they don't need to. They can make profit without creating American jobs. Why aren't they as concerned about their fellow US citizens as they are about their profits? Doesn't a better society in general make their own lives better?

[Veldan Rath]

An educated electorate would mean some gummint involvement in public education, wouldn't it?

How well has that been working?

[Enoch the Red]

Pfft. Same thing I've asked about mega-corps and Big Business. They don't have to because they don't need to. They can make profit without creating American jobs. Why aren't they as concerned about their fellow US citizens as they are about their profits? Doesn't a better society in general make their own lives better?

You're saying a business should act against its own self-interest, it's raison d'etre, just because you think it makes society better? What happens when that business goes under, and everyone it has employed loses their job? What happens when the millionaire fat cats lose their income and stop paying income/payroll taxes?

GGT, you could hire ten people, pay them a fair wage and offer them an incredible benefit package to mow your yard, clean up around the house, and chauffeur you around town. You'd also go bankrupt doing so, you'd probably have to foreclose on your house, and there goes your opportunity to help put your kids through college. You think mega-corps and Big Business don't also have to do these calculations?

[Veldan Rath]

Don't bother Enoch...EAT THE RICH!

[GGT]

How well has that been working?

Then we should do better. We can, and we should. It's got less to do with money or funding, and more to do with educating our children so they can succeed. For years the US used to operate on the assumption that we were so educated (and enlightened) that we'd send missionaries or embassadors to other countries. I think the time has come to utilize our own resources to help our own people. We have a pathetic HS drop out rate, teen pregnancy rate, unemployment and poverty rate. We can't really help others until we help ourselves, IMO.

You're saying a business should act against its own self-interest, it's raison d'etre, just because you think it makes society better? What happens when that business goes under, and everyone it has employed loses their job? What happens when the millionaire fat cats lose their income and stop paying income/payroll taxes?

GGT, you could hire ten people, pay them a fair wage and offer them an incredible benefit package to mow your yard, clean up around the house, and chauffeur you around town. You'd also go bankrupt doing so, you'd probably have to foreclose on your house, and there goes your opportunity to help put your kids through college. You think mega-corps and Big Business don't also have to do these calculations?

No, I'm saying a US business should act in its own self-interest by making sure others can be part of the "good life". What wealthy CEO would want to live behind gates and hired security, because everyone "outside" is poor, hungry, desperate? That's the scenario of angry mobs with torches and pitchforks, being told to "eat cake". The top income tiers should start to realize....their lives are only as good as everyone's lives around them.

[Ominous Gamer]

being told to "eat cake".

Didn't that change to let them eat ipads?