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Thread: Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf?

  1. #61
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    You should watch the most recent Top Gear episode. There they reviewed the Nissan Leaf. Well, Jeremy Clarkson isn't exactly the great environmentalist and is quite satirical about it, but the drawbacks he points out does make you feel reserved buying one. Like battery experts saying that it'll last 5-10 years, that it can take 13 hours to charge, that the predicted remaining battery life alters significantly as you drive, that its acceleration is slightly shady for overtaking etc.
    Well, might not be the best idea to rely on Top Gear for electric car info. Or, the BBC in general, for any info, but that's a whole other can of worms. I personally don't think electric cars are a good idea (yet), nor do I think it's a smart idea to be an early adopter on the 2nd-most expensive item most people will ever buy, but I don't need to lie to support my opinion. Cain >> BBC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    But more miffed that Chaloobs would bump an almost-20 day old post to exclaim "ghey".
    So, then, your objection is that Choobs didn't warn you soon enough about your car making you look like a gay?



    I'm sorry man, but that's just funny.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

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  2. #62
    Agree.

    Anyone with the slightest inkling of knowledge on this however, knows that Top Gear is entirely an entertainment show, not a motoring magazine.

    Everything in each and every episode is utterly contrived, usually to fit Wilman's or Clarkson's own agenda.

    This has been known for more than 25 years, ever since Clarkson stated that the Ford Escort was rubbish and no one would buy it, then it subsequently became Britain's best-selling car.

    Or, the BBC in general, for any info, but that's a whole other can of worms.
    Disagree.

    The BBC's documentaries and fact-based programs are world-renowned and of the highest integrity and quality.

    I personally don't think electric cars are a good idea (yet), nor do I think it's a smart idea to be an early adopter on the 2nd-most expensive item most people will ever buy, but I don't need to lie to support my opinion.
    Agree.

    Hydrogen fuel-cells are the future. Electric cars are an expensive and inefficient stop-gap.

    Cain >> BBC.
    Disagree.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 08-08-2011 at 07:13 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Disagree.

    The BBC's documentaries and fact-based programs are world-renowned and of the highest integrity and quality.
    Right, but that's part of the problem, actually. You Brits have been absolute masters of PR and propaganda and have proven particularly adept at suppressing horrifically nasty laundry, in a way no other nation has managed... and the BBC's been a big part of that in the modern era. So, the cognitive dissonance of trusting present information from the BBC with what I know about a lot of their prior... "informational record" is simply too overwhelming for me.

    Applies to a lot of your "world-renowned" historians "of the highest integrity and quality" too, if that makes you feel better, or me look like more a racist.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  4. #64
    Sure he exaggerates to bring across his points as entertaining, and Nissan have complained about that too. But the core sentiments are the same, and not to be undervalued: electric cars are still not reliable enough.
    Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Right, but that's part of the problem, actually. You Brits have been absolute masters of PR and propaganda and have proven particularly adept at suppressing horrifically nasty laundry, in a way no other nation has managed... and the BBC's been a big part of that in the modern era. So, the cognitive dissonance of trusting present information from the BBC with what I know about a lot of their prior... "informational record" is simply too overwhelming for me.

    Applies to a lot of your "world-renowned" historians "of the highest integrity and quality" too, if that makes you feel better, or me look like more a racist.
    In my mind were Attenborough's swathe of award-winning nature documentaries, Brian Cox's leading programmes on the solar system and the history of the universe, Walking with Dinosaurs, etc etc etc - the fact-based programmes which are sold to worldwide audiences, and are indeed highly regarded.

    I'm not so au fait with historical documentaries.

    People like Attenborough are world-renowned, as are his BBC-produced documentaries. I don't know any historians of world-renown, British or otherwise.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 08-08-2011 at 10:36 AM.

  6. #66
    This is dangerous territory. Boy racers, in many parts of the countryside, are among the greatest hazards to local people's lives. Where I live, in rural mid-Wales, the roads are treated as race tracks. Many of the young lads who use them compete to see who can clock up the fastest speeds on a given stretch. The consequences are terrible: a series of hideous crashes involving young men and women driving too fast, which kill other people or maim them for life. In the latest horror, just down the road from where I live, a young man bumped another car through a fence and into a reservoir. Four of the five passengers drowned.

    Of course I'm not blaming only Top Gear for this, but it plays a major role in creating a comfort zone within which edgy driving is considered acceptable, even admirable. Top Gear's political agenda also persists in stark contradiction to BBC rules on impartiality.
    Oh its good to know that its not "only Top Gear" to blame for the deaths of those people

    I suppose the Guardianista would put Top Gear ahead of the driver in order of responsibility though. Nice independent and trustworthy source that one

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    Sure he exaggerates to bring across his points as entertaining, and Nissan have complained about that too. But the core sentiments are the same, and not to be undervalued: electric cars are still not reliable enough.
    Well, did you read the link? It seems to me like the couple of examples they gave are misleading to the point of being outright lies (regarding driving ranges on a full charge and a lack of warning... when you've got a charge display and a warning from the satnav system). Sounds like a much bigger deal than just an entertaining exaggeration. The problem, the "core sentiment" isn't that electric cars are a bad purchase because they'll "unexpectedly" run out of charge, or they don't go as far as advertised... the problem there is that the supporting infrastructure is so underdeveloped that you have to worry about it at all (and the batteries are so heavy that acceleration is sluggish, and all the other stuff too).

    I didn't know it was an entertainment-first show, honestly... but if that's the defense of factual errata, it just supports my point so much more - it's probably not a smart move to base ~$20,000 purchase on the contents of the show. Either because it gets the facts wrong, or because it's an entertainment product, rather than an informational one... or for both reasons, even.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    In my mind were Attenborough's swathe of award-winning nature documentaries, Brian Cox's leading programmes on the solar system and the history of the universe, Walking with Dinosaurs, etc etc etc
    Oh, I see what you're getting at. Well, sure, I'd trust those from the BBC, and even rather like the ones I've seen. They're informative without being an insomnia aid, unlike the American ones I've seen, that are more effective than prescription sedatives. But by the same token, the information in those products is, for all intents and purposes, universally accepted, undisputed and not really capable of bias or "spin." It's objective data that we all agree on, in essence.

    I was thinking much more of informational programs on more subjective subjects... primarily history. I honestly didn't even think about the fact that lots of [other] people enjoy informational programming on subjects that are largely objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Oh its good to know that its not "only Top Gear" to blame for the deaths of those people

    I suppose the Guardianista would put Top Gear ahead of the driver in order of responsibility though. Nice independent and trustworthy source that one
    Yeah, clearly the Guardian's a leftist rag. I know that. But I happened across that article on Reddit, and it was exactly on point here, so I figured I'd pass it along. But it's not like the allegations of substantially misleading "facts" in Top Gear are fabricated or untrue, are they?

    And again, cut me some fucking slack already. I come from a country where you can pick up any news source and get a relatively decent, fairly balanced reporting of the news, without revealing your political affiliation to the entrie world. I'm sorry. This wasn't my choice, I was born here, in a place that at least tries to subdue political biases and affiliations in journalism.

    It's NOT MY FAULT I wasn't born on some crazy, messed up island where every freaking new source is affiliated with one of your political parties, all of which are just fringe groups of one flavor of nutty radicals or another anyway. A whole freaking nation, tens of millions of people, and not a single, relatively unbiased news source anywhere. Lunacy.

    Seriously, your entire country's nuts.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  8. #68
    Life with David Attenborough > Life with Oprah Winfrey
    If the British know anything, its how to make a good documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Oh its good to know that its not "only Top Gear" to blame for the deaths of those people

    I suppose the Guardianista would put Top Gear ahead of the driver in order of responsibility though. Nice independent and trustworthy source that one
    Was it really that easy to get distracted when the subject was on how Top Gear flat out lies when it comes to the operational parameters of electric cars?
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 08-08-2011 at 12:59 PM.
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  9. #69
    We're talking about the car show which raced a G-Wiz versus a table right?



    edut: Just realised this may be from any of Clarkson's personal shows, not Top Gear. Excuse my BBC-unlike uninformedness.
    Last edited by Ziggy Stardust; 08-08-2011 at 01:07 PM.
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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Yeah, clearly the Guardian's a leftist rag. I know that. But I happened across that article on Reddit, and it was exactly on point here, so I figured I'd pass it along. But it's not like the allegations of substantially misleading "facts" in Top Gear are fabricated or untrue, are they?

    And again, cut me some fucking slack already. I come from a country where you can pick up any news source and get a relatively decent, fairly balanced reporting of the news, without revealing your political affiliation to the entrie world. I'm sorry. This wasn't my choice, I was born here, in a place that at least tries to subdue political biases and affiliations in journalism.

    It's NOT MY FAULT I wasn't born on some crazy, messed up island where every freaking new source is affiliated with one of your political parties, all of which are just fringe groups of one flavor of nutty radicals or another anyway. A whole freaking nation, tens of millions of people, and not a single, relatively unbiased news source anywhere. Lunacy.

    Seriously, your entire country's nuts.
    Depends, are you referring to your nation as the USA or Canada today?

    A comment piece by George Monbiot is on about the same level as a comment piece by Noam Chomsky or Michael Moore on perhaps moveon.org - your nation's not at all nuts either?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Life with David Attenborough > Life with Oprah Winfrey
    If the British know anything, its how to make a good documentary

    Was it really that easy to get distracted when the subject was on how Top Gear flat out lies when it comes to the operational parameters of electric cars?
    When the source article deliberate chose to start ranting about the politics of Top Gear and Clarkson and blaming them for the deaths of people in his town? Yes. I quoted from the source article, I didn't exactly go extremely off field did I?

    EDIT: That Table v G-Wiz is hilarious . I love the accident . I want to see Table v Smart Car now ...

  11. #71
    WTF? George Monbiot's ridiculous comment piece was written on 5 August (3 days ago) based on a Guardian article written back in March. Source

    He neglected to mention that back in April the Guardian issued an update that the 55 mile figures never even came from Top Gear but from Tesla themselves.
    4 April update: Andy Wilman, executive producer on Top Gear, has responded to the claims on his blog, writing: "We never said that the Tesla's true range is only 55 miles, as opposed to their own claim of 211, or that it had actually ran out of charge. In the film our actual words were: "We calculated that on our track it would run out after 55 miles". The first point here is that the track is where we do our tests of sports cars and supercars, as has happened ever since Top Gear existed. This is where cars are driven fast and hard, and since Tesla calls its roadster "The Supercar. Redefined." it seemed pretty logical to us that the right test was a track test. The second point is that the figure of 55 miles came not from our heads, but from Tesla's boffins in California. They looked at the data from that car and calculated that, driven hard on our track, it would have a range of 55 miles."
    EDIT: Here's their full response, seems fair to me.
    Tesla vs Top Gear: Andy Wilman on our current legal action
    You may know that Tesla has issued a writ against Top Gear for defamation and malicious falsehood over the road test that we broadcast of the Tesla Roadster in December 2008. The normal procedure for the BBC in a legal case is to acknowledge receipt of the other party’s claim, and then say no more and get on with preparing its defence for court.

    Tesla, however, doesn’t seem content to wait for the legal eagles to settle matters. On the contrary, it’s been very busy promoting its side of the argument through the media. Why even last night the Top Gear office accidentally received an email sent from a Public Relations firm to The One Show, asking if it would like to have the Tesla spokesperson on their programme to talk about the case. It says: “PHA Media represent Tesla and this could make for a fantastic interview.” And the PHA man’s not finished there. “The presenters could have some fun with this.” He adds. “Matt and Alex could even take the Tesla for a spin and test it out, reaffirming its virtues?” Plenty of respect for editorial independence in that last line there and I wish the chaps from PHA Media all the best in their crusade.

    However, back to Top Gear, and yes, normally we would follow the pre-legal etiquette of keeping schtum until we get our day in court, but since the other side are being quite noisy with their views on how we conduct ourselves, I just would like to point out one or two things to Top Gear viewers:

    1. We never said that the Tesla’s true range is only 55 miles, as opposed to their own claim of 211, or that it had actually ran out of charge. In the film our actual words were: “We calculated that on our track it would run out after 55 miles”. The first point here is that the track is where we do our tests of sports cars and supercars, as has happened ever since Top Gear existed. This is where cars are driven fast and hard, and since Tesla calls its roadster “The Supercar. Redefined.” it seemed pretty logical to us that the right test was a track test. The second point is that the figure of 55 miles came not from our heads, but from Tesla’s boffins in California. They looked at the data from that car and calculated that, driven hard on our track, it would have a range of 55 miles.

    2. We never said that the Tesla was completely immobilized as a result of the motor overheating. We said the car had “reduced power”. This was true.

    3. Tesla claims we were lying when we said the brakes were “broken”. They now say that all that had happened was that the fuse to the vacuum pump had failed, which meant that the brake just had to be pushed down much harder than usual. Well – to my mind, if the brakes are broken, then they’re broken, and if this happened to your car, you’d take it to the garage to get it fixed. Odd it seems so trivial to Tesla now, because on the day of filming they insisted on repairing the fuse before we could carry on driving the car.

    The above points will be argued over in the near future by brainy people wearing wigs, but in a layman’s nutshell, this is where we stand on the matter. Before I finish though, I must clear up one important issue: scripting. It’s alleged by Tesla that on the day of filming one of their employees caught sight of a script that had been written, before the car had even been driven, already containing the verdict that in the “real world” the Tesla doesn’t work. This, they say, proves our guilt, because we’d condemned the car in advance. May I just say in reply:

    a) The truth is, Top Gear had already driven the car prior to filming, to enable us to form a view on it in advance

    b) Our primary reasoning behind the verdict had nothing to do with how the Tesla performed; our conclusion was based mainly on the fact that it costs three times more than the petrol sports car upon which it’s based. It takes a long time to recharge, so you can’t use it as easily for the carefree motoring journeys that are a prerequisite of sports car driving. You can actually reach that conclusion without driving the car. As it happens, when it did come to the subjective area of how the car drove on the track, we were full of praise for its performance and handling.

    c) Just so you understand there’s nothing devious going on, you need to know how this filming business works. When you film a car review, the reviewer is only the tip of the iceberg. Behind the lens is a film crew, and only a day’s worth of light to shoot the eight minute film. This means we have to prepare in advance a treatment – a rough draft of a script so that the director and film crew can get to work right away, knowing what shots they will need to capture. It will contain the facts about a car, and what we think of its looks and so on, but how well the car actually drives is added on the day. If we’ve driven it ahead of filming, as we do with most cars, we will also have an idea how it feels to drive. But, and this is crucial, as we uncover fresh information about a car whilst filming it, it is entirely normal for the treatment to be modified as the day unfolds. Jeremy is always tweaking the scripts to reflect what his driving experience has actually been on the day.

    There you go. I’ve said my bit, and now we’ll hopefully shut up and prepare for our day in court.

    PS: As this is going through the courts right now, we’re afraid we’ve had to turn off comments on this one, but we wanted to let you all know how we see it.
    Certainly not as clear cut as Noam, Michael, George made it appear.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    We're talking about the car show which raced a G-Wiz versus a table right?



    edut: Just realised this may be from any of Clarkson's personal shows, not Top Gear. Excuse my BBC-unlike uninformedness.
    Environmentally friendly acid. Jeremy has cracked me up for every single episode the last 10 seasons, at least.
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Excuse me? Are you a nine year old?
    Are you offended? What's wrong with being gay???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    It's a pretty different color. On two very different cars. But more miffed that Chaloobs would bump an almost-20 day old post to exclaim "ghey".
    Who is "Chaloobs???" I replied almost 20 days later because I didn't see your reply to me before then. Is there a time limit to reply to posts now? If so, what is it? 18 days?
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    So, then, your objection is that Choobs didn't warn you soon enough about your car making you look like a gay?



    I'm sorry man, but that's just funny.
    He also sits down to pee, so . . . .
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  15. #75
    That's not how it works. Someone calls you gay, then you reply and say there's nothing wrong with being gay. Unless you're a nine year old. Which is what you're acting like, using gay as an insult.

  16. #76
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Depends, are you referring to your nation as the USA or Canada today?

    A comment piece by George Monbiot is on about the same level as a comment piece by Noam Chomsky or Michael Moore on perhaps moveon.org - your nation's not at all nuts either?
    You can pick either. My nation my might be nuts, but at least we're nuts in a more normal fashion.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

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  17. #77
    That G-WIZ vs Table is

    ~

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    WTF? George Monbiot's ridiculous comment piece was written on 5 August (3 days ago) based on a Guardian article written back in March. Source

    He neglected to mention that back in April the Guardian issued an update that the 55 mile figures never even came from Top Gear but from Tesla themselves.
    4 April update: Andy Wilman, executive producer on Top Gear, has responded to the claims on his blog, writing: "We never said that the Tesla's true range is only 55 miles, as opposed to their own claim of 211, or that it had actually ran out of charge. In the film our actual words were: "We calculated that on our track it would run out after 55 miles". The first point here is that the track is where we do our tests of sports cars and supercars, as has happened ever since Top Gear existed. This is where cars are driven fast and hard, and since Tesla calls its roadster "The Supercar. Redefined." it seemed pretty logical to us that the right test was a track test. The second point is that the figure of 55 miles came not from our heads, but from Tesla's boffins in California. They looked at the data from that car and calculated that, driven hard on our track, it would have a range of 55 miles."
    EDIT: Here's their full response, seems fair to me. Certainly not as clear cut as Noam, Michael, George made it appear.
    Makes for interesting reading.

    All goes to show that so much depends on how the car is driven.

    A range of 55 miles is indeed hopeless, but drive a car hard and the effects are there to see.

    Top Gear may be silly, contrived, factually woolly and hilarious, but they do bring up some excellent points;

    In another episode, they raced a Prius against a BMW M3. The Prius was raced flat out; all the M3 had to do was keep up.

    The M3, with a 414bhp V8, had the better mpg (gas mileage) at the end of the test. Verified.


  18. #78
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Not that surprising, engines aren't designed to run on 100% power all the time (because that rarely happens) so they are not at their best. In this case the electric engine is mostly dead weight, but this is not what it is designed for (and won't be used for) anyway.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    That's not how it works. Someone calls you gay, then you reply and say there's nothing wrong with being gay. Unless you're a nine year old. Which is what you're acting like, using gay as an insult.
    Fine. I think you're overly sensitive on this, but I recognize what I think isn't what matters most. I'm sorry for saying your bug makes you appear gay. I didn't mean to imply you really were gay but only that your lady killing might be hindered as compared to, say, driving a 'Vette or a Mustang. However, if you were gay that would be fine and dandy.

    As far as VW bugs are concerned I think they are generally feminine - old or new. Sorry, that's the impression I get. A pretty woman in a bug is that much prettier. A man? Not so much. It's like carrying a purse.
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  20. #80
    You're not alone. The feminine impression the current bug cultivates is so strong it was starting to damage the reputation of the rest of VW's line and performance prowness. Its one reason the new bug was designed into its current form, and why the first commercials advertising it all go on about how its the new hotrod to have.


    You want a manly bug you need one with the engine busting out its trunk, or go full on dune buggy.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  21. #81
    So far my experience is women get a huge kick out of the car. Maybe I don't know what it's like out there in real America, but most women don't actually judge "manliness" by the kind of car you have. Unless they are the kind of women into guys who throw around "ghey" and pretend cars are some kind of macho extension.

  22. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    So far my experience is women get a huge kick out of the car. Maybe I don't know what it's like out there in real America, but most women don't actually judge "manliness" by the kind of car you have. Unless they are the kind of women into guys who throw around "ghey" and pretend cars are some kind of macho extension.
    You are kind of being a dick. Is it ok to throw around "dhik"? Or is that nine year old stuff too?

    Regarding macho extensions, I have unfortunately observed plenty of girls get overly impressed by a sharp looking, expensive hot rod car. I never had the money or the inclination to have a car like that, for any reason, least of all to impress that shallow breed of lady. But I have observed some interesting behavior. It is really very nice that the VW gives women you know a huge kick, not that it matters to you of course, you not being into macho imagery. But then, what? Your car image is the cool and thoughtful sans-macho extension? Its funny for you to rail against macho image making but completely miss your admission to essentially non-macho image making. Or wait, did you buy that car for the gas mileage? The use of compact car only spots in the parking garage? No self-image in mind at all, right?
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  23. #83
    Yes, I think it's a cool car. No, I didn't buy it for the milage. Or an image. Or for any reason really, I don't like to drive; don't need to drive; and generally I am never in a car with most of my friends.

    But I like driving that car, and I've loved old Beetles since I was eight. And after years of hoarding cash in anticipation of financial apocalypse I was finally feeling a bit flush and optimistic in the economy. It was only then that I trawled Craigslist while bored at work and realized I could actually afford one and fulfill a childhood dream I forgot I once had.

    And that doesn't mean I don't love people poking fun at the weird aspects of the car. I make those jokes myself. But I'm not the one who ran into a thread screaming "ghey!" in response to a very obvious joke about a Beetle being cooler than new cars coming out today.

  24. #84
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    And that doesn't mean I don't love people poking fun at the weird aspects of the car. I make those jokes myself.
    Well, if you insist...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    So far my experience is women get a huge kick out of the car.
    Heh, you've got fag hags.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  25. #85
    I think you're just calling Dready gay because you're jealous of his excellent taste in vehicles.

  26. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Yes, I think it's a cool car. No, I didn't buy it for the milage. Or an image. Or for any reason really, I don't like to drive; don't need to drive; and generally I am never in a car with most of my friends.

    But I like driving that car, and I've loved old Beetles since I was eight. And after years of hoarding cash in anticipation of financial apocalypse I was finally feeling a bit flush and optimistic in the economy. It was only then that I trawled Craigslist while bored at work and realized I could actually afford one and fulfill a childhood dream I forgot I once had.

    And that doesn't mean I don't love people poking fun at the weird aspects of the car. I make those jokes myself. But I'm not the one who ran into a thread screaming "ghey!" in response to a very obvious joke about a Beetle being cooler than new cars coming out today.
    Have you seen the Top Gear special in Africa?

    (By the way, I drive an Opel Corsa because it has one pedal that makes it make more noise, one that makes it slow down and a circular appliance that makes it go a different way. The only car I would say that reflects negatively on the person driving it is an Audi (and I called that before Top Gear did!))
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  27. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Yes, I think it's a cool car. No, I didn't buy it for the milage. Or an image. Or for any reason really, I don't like to drive; don't need to drive; and generally I am never in a car with most of my friends.
    I first thought - how cool not to own a car. Then I thought, its still got to involve image on some level. Anything we do like buying our dream car without needing it projects an image, even if we're not consciously crafting it. Owning, driving, loving that car says something about you; certainly different things to different people. But that's a digression....

    But I like driving that car, and I've loved old Beetles since I was eight. And after years of hoarding cash in anticipation of financial apocalypse I was finally feeling a bit flush and optimistic in the economy. It was only then that I trawled Craigslist while bored at work and realized I could actually afford one and fulfill a childhood dream I forgot I once had.
    I like that. I once dated a girl in highschool who had the exact same dream - to own a VW bug. And to be a Dentist. I bumped into her many years later and she was working for American Express, had gotten very large, and I don't know if she got her bug or not.

    But I'm not the one who ran into a thread screaming "ghey!"
    This is the part of all this that doesn't make sense.

    I said: "The hell it is. All that car does is tell the casual observer you're gay."

    That's screaming "YOU ARE GAY! Ha HA HA HA!"? Seriously? I thought it said that people who don't know you, who only get a chance to judge you by watching you drive by in your powder blue VW bug, would conclude you were a gay man. And that was really just a stereotyping joke, a poke at machismo in general and what not. You could easily be an auto enthusiast. Or a pseudo-luddite, opposed on some principle to modern car technology. Or who knows what. Your response had the flavor of: "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." A nerve was certainly touched that I did not seek to touch. And as I said above, I'm sorry about that.

    Also, why do you keep mis-spelling gay and putting it in quotes?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  28. #88
    Never seen it, maybe I shall try to find on zee YouTube...

  29. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    I think you're just calling Dready gay because you're jealous of his excellent taste in vehicles.
    I don't really like old cars in general. I've worked around a lot of people who buy old cars, fix them up, and love them more than their wives. I totally do not get that. And I didn't call Dread gay.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Never seen it, maybe I shall try to find on zee YouTube...
    You'd like it I think. Especially the conclusion at the end.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

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