Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf?

[Wraith]

I'm thinking about the next time I'll need to buy a new car. If this comes up soon, the only two I'm really considering right now are the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf. I want something capable of electric only travel, but not really sure which of these to go with.

The Volt has a shorter range, costs about $10k more, but can use a gasoline engine as well. If the reported ranges of the battery are accurate, it should be enough that I'd only very rarely need to burn gas to get wherever I'm going.

The Leaf has a longer range, but is electric only, so I'm screwed if I run out of charge before I've finished whatever traveling I need to do. It shouldn't come up too much, because I usually only manage about 25 mi. a day currently, and that'll drop when I retire, but it's still a concern. It's also uglier than the Volt, but I could live with that.

Anyone heard anything about either of these cars, or want to weigh in on which is a better buy?

[littlelolligagged]

Nissan.

Never buy American.

[GGT]

A back-up fuel source could be very valuable. (Or as my son sings, what ya gonna do when the infra-structure dies?)

something like that. What ya gonna do when the grid is gone?

[Ominous Gamer]

I heard the Leaf isn't living up to its expectations or its lab results.
The Volt I played inside of at Disney looked and felt amazing. But I haven't seen a leaf in person yet.

But these are both new cars and people are still trying to wrap themselves around them. For example, the Leaf was recently modified to do 90mph in reverse for a Goodwood Hill run.

How soon are you looking for a new car, cause I bet the Scion iQ will see an electric model within a few years. Thats if you want a smart car that doesn't suck like a smart car, and no love for the manual Honda hybrid?

[DecoyMilk]

My company owns 2 Leafs, and they've got 2 charging stations set up at our 2 offices, letting employees drive from one to the other. I haven't had a go yet but if I get a chance I'll let you know what it's like.

As an aside, my company (British Gas) is the official 'sponsor' of the Leaf and the new Renault car, and we'll be putting up the majority of the electric charging stations that you'll be soon seeing up and down the country.

[Dreadnaught]

I'm thinking about the next time I'll need to buy a new car. If this comes up soon, the only two I'm really considering right now are the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf. I want something capable of electric only travel, but not really sure which of these to go with.

The Volt has a shorter range, costs about $10k more, but can use a gasoline engine as well. If the reported ranges of the battery are accurate, it should be enough that I'd only very rarely need to burn gas to get wherever I'm going.

The Leaf has a longer range, but is electric only, so I'm screwed if I run out of charge before I've finished whatever traveling I need to do. It shouldn't come up too much, because I usually only manage about 25 mi. a day currently, and that'll drop when I retire, but it's still a concern. It's also uglier than the Volt, but I could live with that.

Anyone heard anything about either of these cars, or want to weigh in on which is a better buy?

Would this be a second car or you're only car? Being an early adopter of these things just doesn't seem especially worth it.

My main concern is what happens when the batteries begin to lose efficiency. There's going to have to be an infrastructure to replace/re-core them. I wouldn't want to be the first consumer to have to deal with that.

[Khendraja'aro]

Would this be a second car or you're only car? Being an early adopter of these things just doesn't seem especially worth it.

My main concern is what happens when the batteries begin to lose efficiency. There's going to have to be an infrastructure to replace/re-core them. I wouldn't want to be the first consumer to have to deal with that.

Like, for the already existing car batteries which already are built into every single car out there? Why exactly do you think they're welded into the car so you can never replace them?

[Wraith]

Would this be a second car or you're only car? Being an early adopter of these things just doesn't seem especially worth it.

My main concern is what happens when the batteries begin to lose efficiency. There's going to have to be an infrastructure to replace/re-core them. I wouldn't want to be the first consumer to have to deal with that.

My only car. The batteries come with a 10 year warranty.

How soon are you looking for a new car,

My old car has more power over the timing than I do. All the warranties ran out years ago, and it's about to pass 100k miles (most put on by the previous owner), so I'm just waiting for it to spontaneously combust.

As an aside, my company (British Gas) is the official 'sponsor' of the Leaf and the new Renault car, and we'll be putting up the majority of the electric charging stations that you'll be soon seeing up and down the country.

Didn't know about the Renault. It looks like it'll be pretty competitive with the Leaf. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be available in the US.

[Dreadnaught]

Like, for the already existing car batteries which already are built into every single car out there? Why exactly do you think they're welded into the car so you can never replace them?

I presume all-electric cars aren't powered by your standard-issue car battery that can be replaced in five minutes.

You're always so hostile.

My only car. The batteries come with a 10 year warranty.

I guess I would still be skeptical over things like how they determine when a battery should be replaced. When you think it's time to replace may not sync with the warranty.

[Ominous Gamer]

I presume all-electric cars aren't powered by your standard-issue car battery that can be replaced in five minutes.

You would be surprised...



Problem with the batteries is that is hard to determine at this point how the usage of the average consumer effects the life of the batteries. Then its several thousand dollars to replace the battery, and you're going to reach the point of "is it new, or salvage", "OEM or 3rd party"


When its time to turn the van back in, I plan to go with a Mazda 2, Fiat 500, or Ford Fiesta for Brandy. ~40 MPG ifor under $15k is good enough for me right now.

[Dreadnaught]

Yes, I've heard of that Zionist company. I think it's the right idea to build that infrastructure. But my point is that infrastructure doesn't really exist yet on any wide scale.

[Ominous Gamer]

Yes, I've heard of that Zionist company. I think it's the right idea to build that infrastructure. But my point is that infrastructure doesn't really exist yet on any wide scale.

but its coming. Nissan is pushing hard to get charging stations across the US, we are installing them at 3 different libaries sometime within the next 2-3 years. Once you get that settled, I expect stuff like this to pop up at your regional dealerships.
If I'm reading Decoy right, Nissan seems to be doing the same in the UK as well.

[Dreadnaught]

I hope so. I'm just saying Wraith may not want to be an early adopter.

[Wraith]

Maybe not, but this isn't a huge leap over existing technology. I don't really see any significant risks here. All I really need is a home charger, and not the quick chargers they're putting up everywhere. I'm also living in probably the second most early-adopting area in the US, after Silicon Valley, so we'd probably get prioritized for any infrastructure upgrades. We're already scheduled for quick-charge stations all up and down the largest local highway.

[Khendraja'aro]

I presume all-electric cars aren't powered by your standard-issue car battery that can be replaced in five minutes.

You're always so hostile.

So what if the car has to spend an hour inside a workshop every two years or so? We already have to do that over here, in order to prove that our cars are still safe.

And how they determine when it's time do replace the battery? Easy. Simply calculate the remaining capacity.

[Dreadnaught]

Your unyielding hostility/aggression is blinding you to the simple point I was making about having that service infrastructure in place before buying the car.

[Khendraja'aro]

Your unyielding hostility/aggression is blinding you to the simple point I was making about having that service infrastructure in place before buying the car.

Ah, yes. Of course, the car manufacturers never think of stuff like maintenance. They also don't provide replacement parts. I don't know what it's like in the US, but at least in Germany we have a lot of car shops dedicated to one manufacturer of cars (usually they're also car salesmen exclusive to that manufacturer). They'd be rather daft to give away the profit from maintenance to independents.

[Ominous Gamer]

Dealerships here also have maintenance departments. Over priced, and getting to the point that newer cars can be serviced only there. Everything is computerized inside a car now and the car brands that do license out their software interface price it into the stratosphere. You can't change the oil properly on my Honda without plugging into a computer Its like BMW's proprietary nut and bolt system finally found a way into the 21st century.

and I'm pretty sure Honda wouldn't have started with the Insight, and Toyota with the Prius, if their dealerships were not equiped to handle full maintenance on those models.

[DecoyMilk]

In the UK, they reckon 10% of all cars on the road will be Electric by 2020, which is about 260,000 households owning an EV.

The Government is currently doing a £5,000 rebate scheme on all new electric vehicles bought.

My company is gonna be supplying alot of the charging stations up and down the country. They're gonna offer home charging kits for £1,000, and solar panels on your roof for £9,000 so you can charge your car up for free. Solar panels are eligible for Government grants too, and any electricity your home generates from solar panels is sold to National Grid, even if you use all of it yourself.

This stuff is the future, it's not just a fad that will disappear in a year or so. I say jump on the bandwagon now if you can afford it, before everyone else follows suit.

[Lor]

In the UK, they reckon 10% of all cars on the road will be Electric by 2020, which is about 260,000 households owning an EV.

The Government is currently doing a £5,000 rebate scheme on all new electric vehicles bought.

My company is gonna be supplying alot of the charging stations up and down the country. They're gonna offer home charging kits for £1,000, and solar panels on your roof for £9,000 so you can charge your car up for free. Solar panels are eligible for Government grants too, and any electricity your home generates from solar panels is sold to National Grid, even if you use all of it yourself.

This stuff is the future, it's not just a fad that will disappear in a year or so. I say jump on the bandwagon now if you can afford it, before everyone else follows suit.

Am I right in thinking there are only two types of Solar Panels you can get for your home? One which generates electricity that can be sold back to the grid and the other system being specifically designed to heat water thus taking making your boiler work less and be more efficient?

Anyone back on to topic, can anyone in America tell me if the Hydrogen powered cars ever really took off? I've only heard of a small number in the west.

[Ominous Gamer]

You would have more luck finding a car running on natural gas

[DecoyMilk]

Am I right in thinking there are only two types of Solar Panels you can get for your home? One which generates electricity that can be sold back to the grid and the other system being specifically designed to heat water thus taking making your boiler work less and be more efficient?

Anyone back on to topic, can anyone in America tell me if the Hydrogen powered cars ever really took off? I've only heard of a small number in the west.

Correct. Though they both make your home more efficient by reducing the amount of power you use. If you're gonna get it, you have to get the PV Solar Panels.

When you generate electricity, you make money thusly:

-You are paid a fixed rate per kilowatt of power you generate by National Grid. Tax-free.
- You are paid an export tariff, which is deemed to be 50%. What that means is they assume you use 50% of the power you generate, and send the other 50% to the National Grid, so you are paid for that
- You save money on your electric bill because you're not taking as much power as previously.

So yes, you're being paid 3 times in various amounts for the same electricity. We worked it out at work a while back and reckon you could pay off your initial outlay within 10 years. Everything after that is free money.

Sure, it's not ridiculous amounts (about £1,000 a year) but it's a nice little side earner. The fixed rate tariff will drop as more people start doing it, so you need to get on quick before it because less worthwhile.

You would have more luck finding a car running on natural gas

Last I checked, gas was 56 pence per therm. That could get you to Scotland and back

[Dreadnaught]

Ah, yes. Of course, the car manufacturers never think of stuff like maintenance. They also don't provide replacement parts. I don't know what it's like in the US, but at least in Germany we have a lot of car shops dedicated to one manufacturer of cars (usually they're also car salesmen exclusive to that manufacturer). They'd be rather daft to give away the profit from maintenance to independents.

Once again, your over-the-top hostility and sarcasm blinds you to the point I was getting at. And the point OG is making, which is that the more advanced cars get, the more it can stifle independent mechanics and thus raise maintenance costs.

And perhaps that's inevitable. But going all electric now means fewer dealers/mechanics who can work on the cars and possibly higher costs. As with almost all early-adopted technology.

Dealerships here also have maintenance departments. Over priced, and getting to the point that newer cars can be serviced only there. Everything is computerized inside a car now and the car brands that do license out their software interface price it into the stratosphere. You can't change the oil properly on my Honda without plugging into a computer Its like BMW's proprietary nut and bolt system finally found a way into the 21st century.

and I'm pretty sure Honda wouldn't have started with the Insight, and Toyota with the Prius, if their dealerships were not equiped to handle full maintenance on those models.

[Ominous Gamer]

My point has nothing to do with early adopters. Doesn't matter if you get a Leaf or a GTR, all new cars are designed, patented, and programmed to make non-dealership maintaince as difficult and costly as possible.

Unless you're claiming anyone that gets a new (or less than 4 years old [in my experience]), is an early adopter

[Dreadnaught]

That's a fair enough point too.

[Khendraja'aro]

Once again, your over-the-top hostility and sarcasm blinds you to the point I was getting at. And the point OG is making, which is that the more advanced cars get, the more it can stifle independent mechanics and thus raise maintenance costs.

And perhaps that's inevitable. But going all electric now means fewer dealers/mechanics who can work on the cars and possibly higher costs. As with almost all early-adopted technology.

Oh, I'm sorry. If I have to point out stuff which you yourself could arrive at with a mere 2 seconds thought then, yes, pointing out that you were negligent to pluck those low-hanging fruits might be considered "hostile".

In Germany we call that "not being able to think for 5 meters of a farm lane."

[RandBlade]

I've had enough pain recently with early adopting things. I'd like an electric car but for now would rather wait until we can see some recharging stations etc around than go for it right now.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Chevy is much prettier. No-brainer.

edit: The Nissan has the same look on it's face as OG's van.

[Kazuha Vinland]

While not trying to offend anyone, I reckon you would be better off asking some kind of petrohead who has marked all the cars in production since 2005. If you aren't acquainted to anyone in person, then try a car forum.

Personally I'm sorta with Dread on this one. The Nissan Leaf might become a hassle even if it's the most efficient out there. The VW Golf is a good car with little fuel consumption, that I know off.

[DecoyMilk]

While not trying to offend anyone, I reckon you would be better off asking some kind of petrohead who has marked all the cars in production since 2005. If you aren't acquainted to anyone in person, then try a car forum.

Personally I'm sorta with Dread on this one. The Nissan Leaf might become a hassle even if it's the most efficient out there. The VW Golf is a good car with little fuel consumption, that I know off.

It's also horribly expensive. If you want a Golf, just buy a Seat Leon instead. Or a Skoda Fabia. They're both VW Golfs, essentially. Same company, same engine, similar interior, different shape, about half the price.