Memorial Day

[GGT]

Remembering and commemorating military men and women who died during war, paying the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

Seen in town parades, patriotic flag-waving, sticking mini flags at soldier cemetery grave sites, visitors at Arlington National Cemetery and national monuments dedicated to soldiers, laying wreaths at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, the national (bank) holiday, BBQs and picnics, lots of war movies all weekend long on AMC.....

<The older movies are especially good at romanticizing war>

I wondered if the US has a total list of ALL soldiers who died from ALL our wars combined, declared and undeclared? I think we should have something like the national debt clock that keeps track of each death, and another for every combat-related injury.

[GGT]

Patton is a great movie. (But I love George C. Scott.) The scene where General Patton meets a young soldier in the medical tent saying his "nerves" are shot, and he slaps the kid and calls him a Coward..... All sorts of propaganda related to patriotism, manhood, violence, virility, shame, honor.

Hard to believe it's taken all these years to translate Shell-Shocked into Combat-Fatigue, then finally recognizing a "legitimate disorder" with a medical term (PTSD).

Wondering if this will be my last Memorial Day to think of others in the background, fallen or not. My youngest son "announced" recently that he fully intends to join the military after HS graduation. Not just as a little kid that used to play soldier, not just as a young man exploring life's options, but as a maturing person who knows fully well what that means....with jokes and criticism from his classmates having been hurdled.

He used to say "maybe I'll be a Policeman...or SWAT....or a Sheriff...or a US Marshall....or CIA...or FBI...or Special Services". He was trying to find socially acceptable ways to follow his "calling", in a time when everyone in fields of enforcement seem to be looked down upon, criticized, mocked. (He was also interested in being a History teacher, during a time when teachers and Liberal Arts are being marginalized.)

But he wants to be a soldier. He doesn't even want to wait after getting a college degree and enter as an Officer. He wants to start as a grunt, and work his way up. As a parent I've tried to encourage him to try for West Point or the Naval Academy or the Citadel...or something else first. I'm pushing hard for ROTC (something our school district doesn't offer) or summer intern-boot camp type things.

In the back of my mind I know why. I'm afraid of losing him in some stupid undeclared war that's really combat for economic power, in third world nations battling between Oil and Extremist religion. Attaching words like "Democracy" or "Freedom" won't change that, not for me anyway. It's hard for me to admit this, but I'd rather see congress re-instate the draft first. Selfish on my part, because I don't want to see my son maimed or killed for his idealism.

[Dreadnaught]

Maybe send him someplace dandified where he can realize that excitement and stimulation can exist beyond the military?

[GGT]

Maybe send him someplace dandified where he can realize that excitement and stimulation can exist beyond the military?

Your reply reflects exactly what he (and other like him) fight against. The suggestion that soldiers signed up to find a "dandified" life experience, as if it's the easy way, or entertainment.

He is NOT looking for excitement and stimulation. Can you be any more demeaning of soldiers?

[GGT]

Apologies for the double or triple posts, but I've had Apocalypse Now running in the background. Earlier it was The Patriot, last night it was Good Morning Vietnam and A Few Good Men. Older WWII movies are rather cheesy, but I know eventually Sophie's Choice, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, The Deer Hunter or Band of Brothers will follow. I've never seen Full Metal Jacket....not sure I want to.

Cinema meant to grab our eyes and hearts, past events to make us think hard, and feel even harder. It's insanity and murder, dressed up as Entertainment. I wish it could all find its way to congress, instead of just Hollywood.

[Dreadnaught]

Candidly I was drunk all afternoon. Biked a dozen or so miles to a place that makes good mojitos, then took the train back.

But I don't think people sign up to be soldiers for a dandified existence at all. I was merely responding to your obvious unease with what he's planning to do. It's clear you think joining regular enlisted in somehow below his potential and he should at least get a college degree in there and/or become an officer.

[GGT]

Candidly I was drunk all afternoon. Biked a dozen or so miles to a place that makes good mojitos, then took the train back.

But I don't think people sign up to be soldiers for a dandified existence at all. I was merely responding to your obvious unease with what he's planning to do. It's clear you think joining regular enlisted in somehow below his potential and he should at least get a college degree in there and/or become an officer.

It's got nothing to do with his potential. As a mother, I don't want to wave a tiny American Flag with other mothers of GIs, being proud at the same time we're worried as hell. Sharing furtive glances of I know what you're feeling....immense pride with unimaginable fear.....while also knowing at least one of us will bury our child, our baby. But that many more of us will welcome home a living child with disabilities or disfigurements. Including the damages we can't see, the damage of the mind and spirit.

Welcoming home our children that no longer feel at home. Interacting with professional soldiers so different from their selves at deployment.

[GGT]

I know there are not many members here who know what I'm talking about...or what my son is talking about. There is something unique and special about those who feel compelled to serve in the military. It's not something shallow from propaganda. It's not something easy like the GI bill for college. It's not shallow, easy, or simple at all.

I don't understand it myself, but as a mother of a young man who's been talking about this for years, and planning his future around this.....well, I guess I hoped someone in the forum could relate to this and talk about it.

[Nessus]

Has he read Slaughterhouse Five?

[Dreadnaught]

It's got nothing to do with his potential. As a mother, I don't want to wave a tiny American Flag with other mothers of GIs, being proud at the same time we're worried as hell. Sharing furtive glances of I know what you're feeling....immense pride with unimaginable fear.....while also knowing at least one of us will bury our child, our baby. But that many more of us will welcome home a living child with disabilities or disfigurements. Including the damages we can't see, the damage of the mind and spirit.

Welcoming home our children that no longer feel at home. Interacting with professional soldiers so different from their selves at deployment.

So we're back to...you don't want your child to go to the military? I get that, it's normal. You don't have to try and put a whole lot of context around it. It makes you uncomfortable and worried that he seems hellbent on going to the military. That's normal. My dad was in something of an elite unit during Vietnam, it made his mother sick with worry.

[GGT]

Has he read Slaughterhouse Five?

I don't know.

Aren't there any veterans here anymore? War stories from your parents or grandparents? Expressions of combat, conflicts in the mind?

[Dreadnaught]

My great uncle recently died at the age of 99. He was a veteran of Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge. He basically never spoke about it, I really feel like some history has been lost.

Only last week I found out that he had been married before he enlisted. His wife died in childbirth and the infant died too. After a few months of doing nothing he joined the military. This was before Pearl Harbor though, he served for six years. He kept things so close to his chest his own children grandchildren didn't know the reason he joined (or that he had lost a wife/child) until my grandma mentioned it in passing at the memorial service.

So yeah, that's why I sometimes question someone who is gung-ho about joining the military.

[termite]

I don't know.

Aren't there any veterans here anymore? War stories from your parents or grandparents? Expressions of combat, conflicts in the mind?

I can relate a few stories from friends & family but I never personally felt compelled to join the forces - my mums father was a 39-45 WW2 veteran and he was distraught when his son (my uncle) went and joined the Navy. He (my grandfather) got himself and his family as far away from Europe/UK as he could as soon as he could after WW2 and knew that his son would end up fighting for some "other" countries war and sure enough he served several tours in Vietnam. The consequences of which still echo today...

I may go into more detail about all that later, busy now.

[Timbuk2]

Having just spent the last 4 days in NY, which, through no intention nor fore-knowledge of our own, covered memorial day, i remain quite surprised at the lack of chest thumping patriotism displayed by my nearby New-Yorkians.

We observed Obama on tv at Arlington make his speech
at the shrine of the fallen soldier or summink this morning while we et brekky on the corner of 28th & Lexington. Suitably sombre stuff. But New Yorkians themselves just seemed to carry on as normal.

However, I have to comment that The only big, enormous, gaping difference between this memorial weekend and equivalent weekends in UK/Europe (remembrance day maybe) is firstly the number of dudes strolling around in army/navy/usaf/marine uniforms, and secondly, the respect afforded to these guys/girls - strangers coming up to shake their hand etc.

Very weird to us. The equivalent dudes in uniform strolling around the streets of London (a rare enough sight in itself) would invite at best indifference and at worst mockery/derision.

Americans love their soldiers. *shrugs*

[Dreadnaught]

First of all, tell us about the trip in the other thread!

Secondly, those soldiers were actually sailors and many of them weren't American (though a lot were). This week is Fleet Week. Navies from around the world park their ships in NY and give tours to the public. Meanwhile, their crews take to the streets to see New York and try to get laid. Though I can understand why you thought we just have lots of soldiers around here. That's definitely not normal.

[Illusions]

However, I have to comment that The only big, enormous, gaping difference between this memorial weekend and equivalent weekends in UK/Europe (remembrance day maybe) is firstly the number of dudes strolling around in army/navy/usaf/marine uniforms, and secondly, the respect afforded to these guys/girls - strangers coming up to shake their hand etc.

Very weird to us. The equivalent dudes in uniform strolling around the streets of London (a rare enough sight in itself) would invite at best indifference and at worst mockery/derision.

Americans love their soldiers. *shrugs*

Its Fleet Week for NYC, well was Fleet Week until the end of today at least. It isn't normally like that at all. I guess Dread and I forgot to mention that too.

[Timbuk2]

Ah haaaa, ok. Fleet week. Yes indeed, a lot of sailors.

We thought it was all related to memorial day.

NY must be a grand place for these fellas to come to at this time - so many bars and restaurants offering discounts to those in uniform.