Jail time I'm thinking.
Self defense or criminal act?
Jail time I'm thinking.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Jail time for vagrantism and loitering? Harsh.Originally Posted by Being
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Campus police (using what looks like military grade pepper spray) on about a dozen students protesting by sitting down?
I bet the asshole cop would have used rubber bullets if he had them.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Looks like a good example of why you shouldn't call the police if you find a child being raped on a college campus, though. Being raped is bad enough; there's no reason to subject the poor kid to getting pepper-sprayed too.Campus police (using what looks like military grade pepper spray) on about a dozen students protesting by sitting down?
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
He wasn't spraying them. He was delicately and carefully watering them. With pepper spray.
Which, according to Fox, is a "food product, essentially"
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
I guess you could just spray people with tabasco sauce, or something
Can you make a spray out of wasabi?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Well, it is. Just a concentrated extract from plants that some people inexplicably eat.
Then again, by the same metrics, so is heroin, and the cops are much less liberal with spraying that around, even though it would probably be a lot more effective.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Clearly we shoudl call the cops in that case, but i think we all get the point, the police departmenet needs policy and agenda reform, and we need better screening when hiring cops (we don't need people on power trips, or people who make poor judgement calls).Looks like a good example of why you shouldn't call the police if you find a child being raped on a college campus, though. Being raped is bad enough; there's no reason to subject the poor kid to getting pepper-sprayed too
Some stolen Gawker comments:Then again, by the same metrics, so is heroin, and the cops are much less liberal with spraying that around, even though it would probably be a lot more effective.
fire hoses: "It’s a sports beverage, essentially!"
police dogs: "It’s a family pet, essentially!"
tasers: "It’s static cling, essentially!"
rubber bullets: "It’s a pencil eraser, essentially!"
hand grenades: "It’s a Fourth of July firework, essentially! God bless America."
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
It's (another) good example of why calling campus police (private) doesn't produce the same results as calling the real police (public).Looks like a good example of why you shouldn't call the police if you find a child being raped on a college campus, though. Being raped is bad enough; there's no reason to subject the poor kid to getting pepper-sprayed too.
Most large schools have sworn, full-time public police officers, with all the power and trappings that come with that title. Private security can not perform the same functions, and are generally limited to making citizen's arrests.It's (another) good example of why calling campus police (private) doesn't produce the same results as calling the real police (public).
The officer in question was almost certainly a real police officer.
It was a good try though.
He is, lieutenant in fact, and he also cost the department a quarter of a million dollars in an anti-gay slur lawsuit.
Currently he is on administrative leave.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Douse them with boiling oil, a food product essentially*...
* Horrifically maiming someone who has horrific opinions is not officially endorsed or sanctioned by Illusions, and is to be taken as dark comedy only. Certain restrictions apply. See stores for details. All advertisements valid only from 11/23/2011 through 11/30/2011. Not applicable to prior purchases, or in combination with other discounts. One coupon per person, per household, per day. Void where prohibited.
. . .
an advertisement thats good before and after black friday? I call bullshit
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Yeah. No one at Davis got shot the way the guy in Oakland did.It's (another) good example of why calling campus police (private) doesn't produce the same results as calling the real police (public).
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
At least the Oakland cops could be held accountable, based on public standards, and be put on administrative leave without pay, during the investigation. Because the Oakland cops weren't acting on behalf of a "private" university police force, but were being held to the higher public standard as Oakland Police.
Besides, I was referring to using private campus police (rent-a-cop) instead of using a "true" public police force that's beholden to the public at large.
<<ie, Penn State, where their campus police were afforded a state congressional "exemption" to Open Reporting laws, don't have public review or evaluation, and can operate under a different coda than public police.>>
I'm under the impression that the UCLA Davis pepper spraying was done by campus police. The Chancellor is trying to distance herself from the campus police, whom she said didn't follow her directions for campus police to disperse the crowd without using force. The resulting "outrage" hasn't been against public police forces, but aimed directly at the UCLA private campus police acting in ways a public police force wouldn't.
Am I wrong on this?
Campus police may have a limited jurisdiction, but, for the most part, they are real police. They are sworn police officers, and have the same authority/uphold the same laws as other real police officers.I'm under the impression that the UCLA Davis pepper spraying was done by campus police. The Chancellor is trying to distance herself from the campus police, whom she said didn't follow her directions for campus police to disperse the crowd without using force. The resulting "outrage" hasn't been against public police forces, but aimed directly at the UCLA private campus police acting in ways a public police force wouldn't.
Am I wrong on this?
I disagree. Many private police forces can operate outside the rule of law. Whether it's for shoplifting or rape, detaining suspects, how they'reinterrogatinginterviewing suspects, how they keep records, or who's legally entitled to subpoena those records. That means private cops have more authority than public cops. Or can "abuse" or over-extend their authority without the same scrutiny demanded of public police.
You disagree with what? Campus police officers are police officers, full stop. They aren't a private police force operating outside the rule of law, regardless of what you seem to want to think.
Now, if a real private security guard forcibly detains you against your will, you can sue them for false imprisonment. Otherwise they are capable of performing a citizens arrest, if they have the legal grounds to do so, or asking you to leave the premises. I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but it doesn't resemble reality.
To be fair, the original spin from the chancellor was that the pepper spray was justified. Blaming the students for circling the police and making the police fear for their safety. It wasn't until after the videos went viral that the tone changed and it suddenly became "chilling".
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Then bone up on the "legalities" surrounding Penn Stat's campus police, the measures its University President took to get legislative "exemptions" from state criminal laws and Open Reporting, and jurisdiction/duty definitions of Campus Police. They can push their way into a dorm room to look for underage drinkers or pot smokers, without a warrant, and call in state police to file criminal charges.
But if someone reports a rape or assault on a university campus to campus police, they're not necessarily required to call state police, divulge their records in a court of law, or protect the victim in any way. It's within their "legal rights" to keep certain criminal behavior "internal" and "private", as they deem fit. Public police officers have a different mission and code of ethics.
I'm not sure on the specifics of the case you're mentioning, but a dorm room is by no means private property.
Just to be clear, your position is that Penn State, which lobbied for and was granted, specific legislative exemptions preventing it from being subject to Pennsylvania's state sunshine laws, is somehow relevant to California campus police forces... how again?But if someone reports a rape or assault on a university campus to campus police, they're not necessarily required to call state police, divulge their records in a court of law, or protect the victim in any way. It's within their "legal rights" to keep certain criminal behavior "internal" and "private", as they deem fit. Public police officers have a different mission and code of ethics.
This conversation keeps taking bizarre turns. First you claim that the UC Davis campus police are all rent-a-cops with absurd amounts of authority by virtue of being a private security special operations task force. This is shown to be a bizarre and patently false claim. You then assert that private security exist and operate outside the law, and can detain and interrogate suspects at will -- without fear of recourse. This too was shown to be a gross misrepresentation of the facts. Then the conversation again twists, this time to Penn State, which by your own admission is operating entirely within the rule of law. It may not be a good law, (fancy that, the government passing counterproductive or downright harmful laws -- perish the thought) but it is, and I feel this is important to note again, by your own admission following the law.
What are we talking about here, GGT. Are we talking about Davis campus police? Are we talking about private security? Are we talking about sunshine laws? I'm trying to understand how this conversation is supposed to flow, but we aren't even moving goalposts, we are changing venues.
So what would you prefer?
Taser? Pepper spray? Baton to head? Wrestle with dozens of students?
This is one of the few times I agree with Lewk; in regards to police force, how do you want them to accomplish their goals? Brute violence might clear the square, and I can think most of us would agree thats completely unwarranted in the situation. I'm not condoning the use of pepper spray here, but in general it seems like its used as a tool to try and distance police and protestors so that they don't end up in situations where more force is used.
Specifically, the case(s) against Penn State employees not reporting child rape that allegedly happened in their athletic locker rooms/showers. Related to campus police operating under different rules and SOP from public police. Picking and choosing which laws they'll follow or enforce, on land that's both public/private.
Simply the different goals and actions of public police vs campus police. A couple of NYC cops pepper spray a few people and are immediately put on leave during investigation. Oakland cops also got the same scrutiny after public outrage. But private/campus police can empty huge canisters of pepper spray (technically a chemical weapon) on a dozen kids sitting down....or decide to not report crimes against kids...? Double standards. *Checks thread title again*This conversation keeps taking bizarre turns. First you claim that the UC Davis campus police are all rent-a-cops with absurd amounts of authority by virtue of being a private security special operations task force. This is shown to be a bizarre and patently false claim. You then assert that private security exist and operate outside the law, and can detain and interrogate suspects at will -- without fear of recourse. This too was shown to be a gross misrepresentation of the facts. Then the conversation again twists, this time to Penn State, which by your own admission is operating entirely within the rule of law. It may not be a good law, (fancy that, the government passing counterproductive or downright harmful laws -- perish the thought) but it is, and I feel this is important to note again, by your own admission following the law.
What are we talking about here, GGT. Are we talking about Davis campus police? Are we talking about private security? Are we talking about sunshine laws? I'm trying to understand how this conversation is supposed to flow, but we aren't even moving goalposts, we are changing venues.
And why do you assume we do? I don't want them to accomplish their goals, particularly when their goals seem to be silencing dissent and eliminating the faint shadow of personal liberties that we have left in this country (in that order).
Really, what part of a bunch of moronic, spoiled college kids exercising their freedoms moronically calls for police action in the first place? They wanna sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya and whine that they're only in the top 5% instead of the top 1% (), who gives a fuck, and why are we macing them for it? Granted, a liberal application of police brutality will probably do these spoiled twats a fair bit of good and educate them on the nature of life, but that's not enough justification to force what's good for someone on them against their will.
Look, it's delightfully despicable and evil of you to want these campus cops to get rewarded for an unprovoked assault on a number of peaceful, unarmed protestors, but again, you're drawing a line where none exists. As has been pointed out multiple times, by multiple posters, these cops are exactly the same as municipal cops. They're not private "security" or rent-a-cops, and have the full force of law behind their actions, and all the public union bullshit that comes along with it... such as, for example, being rewarded for aggravated assault and even murder with paid days off of work, and it being generally impossible to fire them, even when they're caught on camera, undeniably committing serious felonies that would land any civilian in jail for decades. But thank God they're here to kick our asses and get away with it, otherwise some criminal might do it instead!Simply the different goals and actions of public police vs campus police. A couple of NYC cops pepper spray a few people and are immediately put on leave during investigation. Oakland cops also got the same scrutiny after public outrage. But private/campus police can empty huge canisters of pepper spray (technically a chemical weapon) on a dozen kids sitting down....or decide to not report crimes against kids...? Double standards. *Checks thread title again*
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
I was speaking in the more general sense. I have no problem with protests, I do have a problem with Zuccoti Park style invasions.And why do you assume we do? I don't want them to accomplish their goals, particularly when their goals seem to be silencing dissent and eliminating the faint shadow of personal liberties that we have left in this country (in that order).
Really, what part of a bunch of moronic, spoiled college kids exercising their freedoms moronically calls for police action in the first place? They wanna sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya and whine that they're only in the top 5% instead of the top 1% (
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