A Letter From God

[GGT]

Address what you said, and then we'll talk.

You seem to be in the habit of saying one thing, abandoning that position when you are called out on it, all the while taking umbrage because what you actually posted was never the point in the first place.

No, you've backpedaled to your tired but trusty general stance regarding a segment of society after your original specific assertions in this thread were properly challenged as being full of shit.

Early on I answered a few questions minx asked about the letter and author, and why it's in D & D. Admittedly, I wasn't clear about the intent of this thread, and posting the letter muddied it up, starting the thread off in a weird tangent. Mea culpa, my bad, I suck at title-making, should have spent more time anticipating how it would be interpreted and been clearer. Shouldn't have started out with the damn letter.

My subsequent posts are spent trying to clarify -- not backpedal -- that within the GOP leadership there's a small number (fringe) of social conservatives whose top priority is banning abortion (extreme); they're both at odds with, and part of, the party whose priority is small government staying out of private lives (hypocritical); the polarity within the GOP has candidates jumping to appease the far right (fringe) instead of the center, moderates or independents; the religious contingent that is more anti-abortion than pro-life would also cut services for women by defunding services, including abortive pharmaceuticals; using state's rights to legislate away Roe v Wade is part of their political agenda (platform)....

I'll try to fix the title or have someone merge a couple of threads together later.

[Loki]

Once again, you can't call 42% of the population (i.e. those who want to ban abortion) to be a "fringe" population. Lying repeatedly won't make something true.

[Aimless]

That is scary. How many people were surveyed and where?? *shudders* when they say "most cases" do they or do they not include things like down's syndrome?

[Loki]

Do I have to explain to you how national polls are done?

The general exceptions are rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger.

[Aimless]

Yes, you do have to explain. It's your punishment for answering my honest question with your usual kneejerk douchiness. Go on, I'm listening

[Loki]

How many posts have been made about polls on this forum (and its predecessor)? Do you only have a problem with polls when they provide results you don't like?

[Aimless]

Are you on drugs? Do you have a psychiatric illness?

[GGT]

Once again, you can't call 42% of the population (i.e. those who want to ban abortion) to be a "fringe" population. Lying repeatedly won't make something true.

You could start reading my posts completely, instead of name-calling

Your pew poll asked Legal/Illegal in All/Most cases. Sections for party affiliation and religion but only Protestant white, evangelical or mainline or Catholic white. That poll doesn't really show a comprehensive picture, and you know it.

Within the GOP leadership (already a smaller number than all Republicans) there are those who want to ban abortion in all cases, including rape or incest, want the US to be a "pro-life country", don't want any US funds used in poor countries -- or at home for poor women -- for comprehensive education, BC or family planning unless any/all abortion is excluded, want to limit or ban pharmaceuticals (Plan B, RU 486), don't want sex-ed taught in public schools, want to use anti-abortion a litmus test for all Republican candidates....based on their religious beliefs.

Within the states, there are numerous Republican bills to define personhood from the moment of conception, add all sorts of hoops for women -- from looking at ultrasounds to listening to heart beats to hearing a pro-life lecture to waiting periods, zoning or facility restrictions meant to close abortion clinics and chase physician providers from a region/state, even introducing bills banning abortions after ten weeks conception (I believe that was Georgia?)....based on their religious beliefs.

IMO this is a disturbing trend. Trying to undo the rights of Roe v Wade state-by-state, and by stacking the GOP from the top down with anti-abortion legislators.

Now, if you're trying to say that legislating the above agenda, based on religious beliefs, is "main stream" then it's even more disturbing. Even among the pro-life crowd there's support for teaching sex-ed in schools, comprehensive care with BC and family planning, reducing abortions by preventing unintended pregnancy. I'd like to discuss the fringe that ignores science and health with claims that God is on their side....

[Loki]

Are you on drugs? Do you have a psychiatric illness?

Is this how you deal with difficult patients?

Your pew poll asked Legal/Illegal in All/Most cases. Sections for party affiliation and religion but only Protestant white, evangelical or mainline or Catholic white. That poll doesn't really show a comprehensive picture, and you know it.

It shows 42% in support of Palin's view. You shifting the goal posts, attempting to change the topic, and blatantly lying doesn't change that fact. Are you trying to replace Alber?

[GGT]

It shows 42% in support of Palin's view. You shifting the goal posts, attempting to change the topic, and blatantly lying doesn't change that fact. Are you trying to replace Alber?

Your Pew poll didn't say a damn thing about other races besides white, or religions outside Protestant or Catholic. They also didn't ask about any grey area such as selective termination for IVF multiples, or fetal anomalies like anencephaly or Downs. It didn't ask about things like federal or state funding for abortion prevention done thru public schools or clinics. They didn't poll GOP leadership for their views.

Even if 50% of people polled agree with Palin, that doesn't exclude other sub-categories that could disagree with the issues I mentioned. Does that the Pew poll is lying? Does that make you a liar for using one poll in ways it didn't even track?

[Aimless]

Is this how you deal with difficult patients?

You're not a difficult patient and we're not at work. I asked out of curiosity and because I was surprised. You shouldn't be asking me about my behaviour. You should instead scrutinize your own automatic reaction to my questions. Go on, scrutinize it. Is this how you treat people when they ask you an innocuous question? How's that working out for you? Perhaps you can examine your last 100 exchanges on this forum for some clues.

[GGT]

I'll try to fix the title or have someone merge a couple of threads together later.

No suggestions? Since I screwed up the OP title, I don't want to screw it up twice!

[LittleFuzzy]

Early on I answered a few questions minx asked about the letter and author, and why it's in D & D. Admittedly, I wasn't clear about the intent of this thread, and posting the letter muddied it up,

As did the fact that initially you kept referring to the emails as the initial source for this and only announcing later *like it was something you'd just found out* that apparently the "letter" had been in Palin's first book as well.

[GGT]

As did the fact that initially you kept referring to the emails as the initial source for this and only announcing later *like it was something you'd just found out* that apparently the "letter" had been in Palin's first book as well.

I was answering minx's questions. The letter hit main stream news (the second time) after her Governorship e-mails were released....first time I personally read it. It was published in her first book which I have not read. You going to bitch at me for that, too?


Look, you all can stop hounding me about the damn letter or how I started the thread badly. I've already said the letter wasn't the main topic but how the subtext fits in with a trend of GOP pro-life politics and religious propaganda. I've already apologized for making a suck ass title and asked for suggestions before I change it.



edit for those who won't let the Letter go---

To tell her children that their brother will be born with disabilities, she pens a letter in the voice of "Trig's Creator, Your Heavenly Father."

A review of her book (Going Rogue) by Washington Post in '09.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111603732.html

[Nessus]

Jaded? Probably. I'm not doubting she loves her children, Downs or not. She made her choice, but wants to take away other women's private choices. The underlying pro-life Christian conservatives admit they want to ban abortion or repeal Roe v Wade. These types of emotional and religious missives are part of their strategy, including bills introduced to define Life beginning at conception, replacing the term fetus with person, etc.

She's also no better than other politicians who put their kids 'on stage' like props, parade them around for photo-ops, then complain about wanting privacy for their family.

She's loads above family Santorum, evidently, though that seems a bar awful easy to jump.

[oldmunchkin]

Personally, I think the Christian Conservative Fundies are flat out dangerous! Dangerous to our health, happiness, and general welfare! According to what I have read in different places over the years, they think anyone who doesn't jump up and down to agree with them are "terrible" and "shouldn't be allowed a voice". We are just supposed to blindly follow them and their beliefs because they know best how we should live our lives!

I think Palin's "Letter from God" was a sneaky little ploy to get HER views out there, making it seem that women...or couples...who choose abortion over a child with birth defects, are being selfish! She is in a position, financially, to care for this child. Maybe Joe and Jane Doe can't afford the care that is needed for a child like this!

She also makes it seem like she got a direct transmission from God! Isn't that the main belief of cults? I can't speak for others, but I sure as shit do NOT want to live in a country where the person who is running for Pres. is a person who believes God talks directly to her!

[LittleFuzzy]

Look, you all can stop hounding me about the damn letter or how I started the thread badly. I've already said the letter wasn't the main topic but how the subtext fits in with a trend of GOP pro-life politics and religious propaganda. I've already apologized for making a suck ass title and asked for suggestions before I change it.

You start a thread and topic, people don't react the way you were hoping, so you always try and switch focus to get the reaction you want. Which usually means you just try and reintroduce an older thread where the reaction was closer to what you were looking for. And then, sometime later in the thread, you'll refer back to the original post and conflate all the subsequent discussion back onto it, because to you they were all one and the same. But they're not for me, or for a number of other posters. It's aggravating so no, I'm not going to stop spreading that aggravation back to its source.

[GGT]

You start a thread and topic, people don't react the way you were hoping, so you always try and switch focus to get the reaction you want. Which usually means you just try and reintroduce an older thread where the reaction was closer to what you were looking for. And then, sometime later in the thread, you'll refer back to the original post and conflate all the subsequent discussion back onto it, because to you they were all one and the same. But they're not for me, or for a number of other posters. It's aggravating so no, I'm not going to stop spreading that aggravation back to its source.

After replies I didn't understand, and criticisms that I finally understood....I admit my flawed and failed attempt when starting this thread. Of course it's my fault when people don't discuss the intended topic, when it began on such vague footing! I should have known better.

I tried to turn it around and asked for suggestions, but that's also met by aggravation and more criticisms. The horse is dead, already.

Going forward, being pedantically true to the OP, there's nothing left to discuss but Ms. Palin and her Letter from God.

[Dreadnaught]

Low blow, GGT. Not to mention almost meaningless.

She wrote a personal letter to friends and family about her soon-to-be-born son with Down's Syndrome. She tried to keep it upbeat. Years later, these e-mails get released to the public because Sarah wasn't bright enough to not send work-related e-mails on her personal account.

So now we're mocking/vilifying her for this e-mail of all things?

[oldmunchkin]

Low blow, GGT. Not to mention almost meaningless.

She wrote a personal letter to friends and family about her soon-to-be-born son with Down's Syndrome. She tried to keep it upbeat. Years later, these e-mails get released to the public because Sarah wasn't bright enough to not send work-related e-mails on her personal account.

So now we're mocking/vilifying her for this e-mail of all things?

Yes, it was a personal e-mail...sent on a government owned computer, using a government e-mail address (I am assuming this because of the release of the e-mails.)! Should she just be allowed to ignore those facts? If she used her own computer, then we shouldn't be invading her privacy, as long as it was a personal computer and a personal e-mail account! (But that's another subject...high-visibility people and their privacy.)

Yes, I realize she was trying to be upbeat in writing this e-mail. But, I have a problem with her, or anyone for that matter, acting like she had a personal conversation with God! Most cults have leaders who claim they have a direct hotline to God. Yay...just what we need to run the USA!

Oh, I love to mock and vilify her for any reason, or none at all. I don't like her. I don't like her political views. I don't like her seeming desire to force religion back into politics. I don't like her pretending to be perfect, and have the perfect family, when her daughter was pregnant with a bastard child and her husband was being watched by authorities for some reason I never did get. I don't like her voice, her dress style, her demeanor, or her bullshit! But, this e-mail makes it just too fucking easy! She set herself up for this shit, and now she is whining about it!

[Ziggy Stardust]

The 2 biggest issues challenging America at this point: Weiner's twitter and Palin's emails.

I have a different tangent for this thread, is the reluctance to focus on the economy, Libya, immigration, healthcare, etc (especially etc) fuelled by the media's thirst for sensationalism or our own need for escapism?

(it's both isn't it? shortest discussion evar )

[oldmunchkin]

The 2 biggest issues challenging America at this point: Weiner's twitter and Palin's emails.

I have a different tangent for this thread, is the reluctance to focus on the economy, Libya, immigration, healthcare, etc (especially etc) fuelled by the media's thirst for sensationalism or our own need for escapism?

(it's both isn't it? shortest discussion evar )

What I am seeing most of is Weiner, Palin...both Sara and Bristol, and fucking Casey Anthony! Jesus Christ, is there nothing else to talk about? What do I think about Weiner twittering his Weiner...who gives a flying fuck! What do I think about Palin...Sara I pay a bit more attention to because she might try for president, and Bristol should just shut the fuck up. Who cares about her losing her virginity? Not me! And with Casey Anthony being the only news that CNN and HLN wants to cover, I am flat out sick of her lying bullshit! Who the fuck loses their kid for 30 days and doesn't report it to the cops? Either a person who killed the kid or a person who has a serious mental problem! So, shoot her off to a psych ward for 10 or 15 years, get her sane, then send her to prison for the rest of her life, so we can actually get news instead of this shit!

[Dreadnaught]

Yes, it was a personal e-mail...sent on a government owned computer, using a government e-mail address (I am assuming this because of the release of the e-mails.)!

It was on her personal account. That's the whole issue here.

She used her personal Yahoo account for government business and personal stuff, so all of the e-mails sent during her tenure from the Yahoo account were made public.

And I don't see how this e-mail really sets her up for anything. I mean, are we really surprised that she's religious and anti-abortion (even in the face of giving birth to a kid with Trisomy 23?

[oldmunchkin]

It was on her personal account. That's the whole issue here.

She used her personal Yahoo account for government business and personal stuff, so all of the e-mails sent during her tenure from the Yahoo account were made public.

Well then, not very smart, is she? I mean, even I have a separate e-mail for business related stuff, disability related stuff, and soon, school related stuff.

And I don't see how this e-mail really sets her up for anything. I mean, are we really surprised that she's religious and anti-abortion (even in the face of giving birth to a kid with Trisomy 23?

No, I don't think we are very surprised she is pro-cult and anti-choice. What is surprising to me is the fact she seems to think she is better than everyone else...IE, has a hotline to God! Yes, I know that's not what the e-mail says, it's just the light it is written in! Yes, I understand she was trying to put a gentle face on what can be a terrible disability. I don't even know how to say what I mean, it's more of a feeling that makes me very uncomfortable with her and her abilities! It bothers me in some indescribable way. Sorry.

[Loki]

Well then, not very smart, is she? I mean, even I have a separate e-mail for business related stuff, disability related stuff, and soon, school related stuff.

Are you serious? Do you know how many people do this? The only difference is the media isn't out to get all those people and their private emails are therefore not released.

[oldmunchkin]

Are you serious? Do you know how many people do this? The only difference is the media isn't out to get all those people and their private emails are therefore not released.

Look, it just seems to me to be smart to keep your personal e-mail apart from your business e-mail! Especially if you are a politician. C'mon, she's gotta KNOW someone is watching or wanting to watch. When she entered politics, she should have known that there is no privacy of personal things. Hell, she can't be that fucking dense. Politicians have been caught with their pants down, so to speak, for years! Then, as Governor of Alaska, she had to know that she would be in the public spotlight! Then, when she joined the Republican ticket as VP candidate, she should have known that nothing is private anymore, on a national level! She is the one who threw herself into the public eye. She really can't be so dense as to think the media wouldn't want her e-mails. Plus that, she has written her "tell all" book(s), further shoving her ugly mug into the media. FFS, it's not rocket science!

[Loki]

Except she did nothing illegal or even unethical here. The national media also didn't give a damn about her at the time, so she hardly had reason to suspect that they would at a future point. Furthermore, the letter was written before she was chosen by McCain to be his VP candidate. More importantly, nothing in that letter is remotely objectionable. You seem to think that the woman having beliefs different from yours is grounds for outrage. You also seem to think you're superior to the woman while claiming that she's the one claiming superiority.

[oldmunchkin]

Except she did nothing illegal or even unethical here. The national media also didn't give a damn about her at the time, so she hardly had reason to suspect that they would at a future point. Furthermore, the letter was written before she was chosen by McCain to be his VP candidate. More importantly, nothing in that letter is remotely objectionable. You seem to think that the woman having beliefs different from yours is grounds for outrage. You also seem to think you're superior to the woman while claiming that she's the one claiming superiority.

Admittedly, I don't like Palin! I don't like her ideas, her politics, or her religious beliefs. Does that mean I think I'm better than her? No! It means I don't like her. I could care less about her personal e-mails except that this one shows exactly what kind of shit she likes to spout in public! IMO, politics and religion don't mix well. They should be two completely separate compartments of a politician's life. I don't think religion has any place in what is supposed to be a rational endeavor. That's mostly my own feelings but I don't think religious fanatics should have any place in national politics. This "letter" makes her seem like she is a zealot. Maybe she isn't, but the letter give me that idea.