I thought it was fairly common for laptop-HDs to have some sort of mechanism for stopping the drive when it thinks it's falling.
I thought it was fairly common for laptop-HDs to have some sort of mechanism for stopping the drive when it thinks it's falling.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Pray tell, what durability "standards" have we lost in the past decade or two in terms of computer usage? New computers last just as long as old ones do; its just that obsolete-ness is catching up even faster than it was at the beginning of the computer age. OS's are getting arguably more stable and usable on any computer, components are lasting longer while providing increased performance, and prices are going down. We've made major inroads on both affordability and reliability, and only you seem to think that components should be required to be unbreakable to be considered good.Originally Posted by GGT
For the record, apparently there's software to retract the HDD head when/during a fall, but I've never really tested it.
EDIT: Aimless knows what I'm talking about, though I'm not sure it worked when my laptop fell.
And shockingly, I'd be surprised if a flawed HDD design lasted very long on the market these days. People do check reliability reports and product reviews, and manufacturers have a stake in building the machines as stable as possible.
It worked on my previous laptop (that specifically advertised for it), I dropped it a few times and the HDD still worked. But if it drops hard, it will still damage.
A while back I saw an external HDD in a fall-proof casing (it was on a film set, so it had to be very durable). The casing was about as big as a small desktop computer. Not exactly ideal to put that in a laptop..
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Harddrives are delicate, dropping them, even when off, can kill one.
FoxConn's entire consumer motherboard line seems to be bult around cheap, low life boards with little to impossible warranty coverage, Iomega is just as bad, but they flip back and forth between their own designs and rebranding someone else's.
Don't even get me started on the PSU market.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
I suppose I stand corrected; there's a niche? for low-cost parts.
More than a niche, it's a pretty big market. But I wouldn't go so far as to say you stand corrected. Electronics are just like anything else in life - you get what you pay for, and the cheap stuff is inferior to the standard or higher quality stuff, but it's cheaper.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
The most expensive stuff is still shockingly poorly constructed.
Nope.. that used to happen; everything goes much slower now. You're actually living in the past.
SSDs are actually much more resistant to that issue since they have no moving parts. Expect SSDs to fully replace spinning hard drives in 5-10 years. Of course, a million other parts can and will break if you drop your laptop.
There are laptops that are OK when dropped on the floor, but it's very expensive to "drop-proof" laptops and not everyone will pay for that.
You gotta design the whole laptop around that -- make the parts insulated, sturdier, springier, etc. Since most consumers buy cheap laptops every 2-3 years or so, and the cost to drop-proof it is the same whether it's a $400 or a $2000 laptop, there just isn't a market for it and companies won't pay to design two versions of every laptop. They can barely get the one right!
The average older PCs were in fact sturdier. Newer PCs typically need more power because they are much more powerful. You gotta remember though that in the 90s and early 00s, the average PC price tag was much bigger, and most people didn't use PCs on the scale that they are using them now.
Now everyone's into PCs -- they are buying cheapo crapola, and because of economies of scale many of the common parts are the same, regardless of the cost of the PC. So yeah the average computer is going to die more often, and even more expensive ones -- they're made from mostly the same parts.
Last edited by agamemnus; 09-01-2011 at 07:09 PM.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Yes. Are you a computer programmer, or do you just play one on TV? Both, here...
Many computer programs (games) do not utilize more than one core. It is much harder and sometimes impossible to code a specific program to use more more than one or maybe sometimes two cores. And guess what? Speeds for one core (for an equivalent price) are not 800% better than in 2004. Maybe 200%, but that's pushing it.
GPUs are a different story.. they are maybe even more than 800% better, but why? Because in 2004/5ish: (1) GPUs had not been as developed as CPUs because there was no need (3D games were not quite as big-bucks businesses as they are today) and (2) because GPUs can be parallelized on a massive scale.
Last edited by agamemnus; 09-01-2011 at 09:00 PM.
I'm curious about the processing speed increase since 2004. Thats about the time we entered our current plateau in hardware. AMD even uses the same 939 socket now.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Lol. I was naturally not referring to the interface of Macs, but rather the fact that not-very-resource intensive programs open way faster than in Windows. To get that feel of near instant response, a SSD works wonders. And honestly, how much will a higher IOPS rating benefit the current technology, when his laptop's motherboard is limited speedwise anyway? Not by much. That they are less stable is also bullshit. With normal sage, you might as well use it a decade or two. I hate it when people bring in servers and the likes when it has no relevance whatsoever. It's a God damn laptop. Rather yet it is more resistant against impacts, which as proven by TC really IS relevant. Grab some perspective.
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
SSD is just sooo good... When everyone starts using SSDs, however, I fear that software mega-corps will begin to catch on and start bloating up their software so much that even SSDs will take oodles of time to load them...
BOSS: "Make this software take 2 minutes to load so that it feels important."
UNDERLING: *creates a CPU-intensive 2 minute loop in the loading function*.
Well someone clearly hasn't been paying attention to the few details about my life I do share. But the more important point, as it relates to this discussion, is that I actually know what Moore's Law is, and you don't have a clue.
That's outstanding, and even sort of right in places, but it has nothing to do with how long it takes to double to number of transistors on a piece of silicon.
If you'd followed the link I gave, and read it at all, you'd know that, instead of rambling on about about a non-sequitur you don't quite understand. *sigh*
Or you could use Gentoo, get the same zip, and a 7 TeraByte RAID5 array for the cost of a decent sized SSD.
Please stop. You talking about tech is worse than GeeGee talking about economics.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Blah blah, taking a blurted out often-quoted and often-discussed quote and making it an exact science, are you?
You can double the amount of transistors without doubling the amount of speed just by adding a second core and making the CPU bigger. So the number of transistors on a CPU isn't really relevant nor what Omega said...!! He said:
.. this used to be true in the late 90s, especially for RAM and speed...But, computers double in memory, capacity, speed, and etc in approximately two years (double power)
Reaching new heights in ignorance, I see. Computer speed/capacity/etc. doubling every 18-24 months is a distortion of Moore's Law. That's what Moore's Law got twisted into when technically illiterate twits got hold of it. Moore's Law, which was an observation was a) about transistor density, not performance and b) a rough observation that turned out to be uncannily accurate, not a precise rule that actually EVER occurred in the first place.
Christ, it's painful. If you knew the first thing about what you're trying to argue here, you'd know all this shit already and I wouldn't have to spell it out for you. So FFS, go learn the first thing about Moore's Law and how it relates to historical trends in computer technology.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Seagate hard drives are REALLY solid compared to WD. I know this because I had one of each that I needed to destroy, so I took a hammer to them both. I had smashed a hole through the WD one with 3 hits, the Seagate one took about 5 minutes of really hard hitting to even properly dent it.
How do you expect to run with the wolves at night when you spend all day sparring with the puppies?
- Omar Little
READ... Where did I say it wasn't, or claim it corresponded to "Moore's Law"?
Reaching new heights in ignorance, I see. Computer speed/capacity/etc. doubling every 18-24 months is a distortion of Moore's Law.
Or the density, whatever. Point is, practical speed of an application isn't doubling every 2 years anymore because programmers aren't clever enough. The transistor density apparently isn't doubling every 2 years either.
Or just ignore the whole Linux bullshit, as again, it alters the purose completely and hence is irrelevant. Darnit, can't people figure out that enormous compromises won't work EVEN if you use it for your freak setup and feel jolly about it...
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
READ... Where did I say it wasn't, or claim it corresponded to "Moore's Law"?
Or the density, whatever. Point is, practical speed of an application isn't doubling every 2 years anymore because programmers aren't clever enough. The transistor density apparently isn't doubling every 2 years either.
No, point being your post (at least before you edited it and it quintupled in length) was wrong.
"Nope.. that used to happen; everything goes much slower now. You're actually living in the past."
It didn't used to happen, it was a publicly stated distortion of Moore's Law. And to the extent that it used to happen, it still does happen - doesn't matter if that's because the same chunk of silicon has more cores and more transistors, or just more transistors.
What? How does Linux alter the "purpose completely" or qualify as a "freak setup?"
(Granted, my setup is a freaky awesome, but for more reasons than just the OS.)
If you wanna spend 500 hundred bucks for a decent sized SSD, go nuts. I'd rather buy a 1 TB HDD for 50 bucks, and make my computer zippier than hell with free software... and it's not "irrelevant" to pass that on as a viable option to others.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Er, well, it kinda is if he can't use the programs he wants to use with that zip, if it requires more time and effort than he's willing or able to put in (the markup is the price you pay for not having to wait in line!!!) or if it prevents him from doing what he wants to do with that 7TB RAID5 array eg. carry it around comfortably
An SSD is probably among the quickest and easiest way to make your system [feel] more responsive. It's like going from 1GB to 2 GB RAM for an old win XP system. It's lovely
But RB, you coulda also checked out the MomentusXT hybrid drive:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3734/s...ood-hybrid-hdd
Has had some teething troubles, but on the whole I dunno if there's any real point buying any other non-SSD drive for a laptop than this one.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
That's all fair enough, but I'll point out that you could always use Ubuntu (or some other user-friendly Linux distro) for free, without much effort, and would also get a bunch of zippiness. With WINE there are very few Windows programs you can't run in Linux as well, so those objections may or may not be applicable.Er, well, it kinda is if he can't use the programs he wants to use with that zip, if it requires more time and effort than he's willing or able to put in (the markup is the price you pay for not having to wait in line!!!) or if it prevents him from doing what he wants to do with that 7TB RAID5 array eg. carry it around comfortably
An SSD is probably among the quickest and easiest way to make your system [feel] more responsive. It's like going from 1GB to 2 GB RAM for an old win XP system. It's lovely
Hybrid drives are a good option - great compromise between size and speed - but are still substantially more expensive than comparable HDDs, which might be a problem for some people.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
You just cannot bend yourself around that not everyone prefer Linux, can you? For the average user who has used Windows to the extent where every action is near automatic, it's quite simply one hell of an obstacle to change. Another thing I hate is when people lie about numbers and statistics to work in their favor. Freaking stop that, it's misleading. The SSD is less than half the vivid price you stated. 227USD at Newegg for Crucial M4 128GB.
Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?
No, "that used to happen" was referring to Omega's post of everything doubling in two years, and it's not true as it was before because we are no longer doubling everything in two years, and haven't been for a while as we discussed... In fact, there was no mention of Moore's Law specifically until you jumped me (I think)!
No, I don't accept that Linux "Linux bullshit, as again, it alters the purose completely and hence is irrelevant." It's not bullshit, irrelevant, or "purpose altering." (Whatever that means.) It's a free option, that could provide as much zippiness as an SSD, with minimal effort. Anyone who does windows can use Gnome and an easy install distro. I know, because I've seen it done by some pretty computer illiterate friends.
And I'm not lying about statistics, if anything, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. A decent sized SSD is almost 500 bucks. And I radically lowered my standards to allow "decent" to mean ~"250 GB." My freaking mom chews through 128 GB without breaking a sweat with music and videos and whatever other crap she uses her computer for, so it's not realistic to expect Randblade to restrict himself to that (IMHO) knowing that he's using his laptop as a gaming platform, in addition to for work stuff and probably media as well. And, FWIW, I can buy a 2TB HD for 69 bucks at newegg, so it's also pretty charitable to say a 7TB array costs as much as 500 bucks, when I could probably bring it in for a lot less if I wanted to.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Well, it depends. If you want to use a dozen very complex editing software suites, 3D development and rendering programs, etc., that will chew up quite a lot of space and you might need a 250GB SSD or bigger, plus an extra spinning HD to store archived stuff.
If you want to use the SSD just for light general use and games, a 120GB SSD for about $200, PLUS a vanilla HD to store your large files (personal images, video, etc.) everything else, then you should do that.
Of course, regardless of whether the SSD is 120 or 250 gigs, you will need to do some maintenance to remove unused programs and copy your data back onto the regular HD, but for me it is very much worth the particular hassle.
An SSD-only approach is probably ridiculous to everyone except the super-rich or super nuts, as it will require either sticking with a cheap 120 gigs and hoping it won't die and you won't lose all your data (SSDs still aren't stable as I originally thought) OR a RAID array; thus 2x500 or 2x1000 SSD drives.
SSDs are bouncing around a $1 a GB for the moment, so they aren't exactly priced out of reach for the people who understand the speed benefit they would produce. They are definitely at the top of my Black Friday list.
Also don't know anyone who uses only an SSD in a computer they plan long term storage with. You set the SSD as the boot and the hard drive as your storage device. You get the speed you want when you need it, and the storage for the crap everyone wants to save, but never comes back to.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
URGH! While I was able to download Win 7 64 as an ISO to re-install (with my perfectly legitimate Product Key), I seem to be unable to re-download my perfectly legally purchased version of Microsoft Office 2010 Professional Plus. The site I bought it from is now telling me I've reached my "authorisation limit" for downloading it. Bah, I'm trying to re-install it legally onto the same machine, not install it over a load of machines.
Can't find anywhere only yet to download Office 2010 Professional Plus, as I assume it'll need to be that edition for my Product Key to work.
Piracy FTW? You might need a pirate key too, though, and I don't know if UK office is techincally a different product for product key purposes... well, if you can't do it free with the DRM crap, someone here can probably help you with that hurdle.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Since I've legally paid for it once already, I'd have no qualms if necessary going down that route. Haven't ever had even a single bit of pirate software on my Laptop though.
Finger crossed it seems to be installing now, found a trial version of Professional Plus to download and simply put in my product key rather than the trial key given. It seemed to recognise the key though which is a start, when I tried doing the same thing on a trial version of Professional it said my key was not a valid one which was a worry at first given I knew it was. Fingers crossed it activates.
Call them and tell them your computer broke. They're pretty lenient (they usually give you an extra download no questions asked).
Hope is the denial of reality
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